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Wall Street Protestors

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Boom_70, Oct 7, 2011.

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  1. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Can anyone explain what these people are protesting? I've yet to see a coherent explanation.
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    It's not a very focused protest, because "Wall Street" is not some monolithic entity. But economically the country is suffering and that always breeds unrest. And the people protesting believe that our financial system, as represented by Wall Street (and I believe an emphasis on banks), are the cause of our economic problems.
  3. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    Sounds to me like they're barking up the right tree.
  4. deskslave

    deskslave Active Member

    The general theme, I think, is that we're time trying to rebuild the previous system when we should be coming up with a whole new one.
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    If you want to look at the root causes of the meltdown in 2008, banks are the place to start.

    But if you want to look at where we are economically today, U.S. fiscal and monetary policy (our last several Congresses and presidents) added to the disaster that is the Euro, added to individual fiscal policies of just about every European country that has put them on the verge of a bankruptcy are the places to start. Then add to that one big piece of populist regulation known as Dodd-Frank, which is going to hurt, not help.

    In 2008, people should have never bought the "too big to fail" crud. But this is not 2008. And there have been so many bad decisions at the policy level since 2008 that kicked a can down the road to the point where we now have a crisis, that focusing on banks is bewildering. The banks people are so angry at are teetering. Look at the stock charts of Bank of America and Morgan Stanley, for example. B of A is down more than 50 percent this year. Morgan is down close to 50 percent. As is Citigroup. These are companies that seriously might not be around a year from now if we start seeing sovereign defaults in Europe and a double dip recession. And it has nothing to do with 2008 or anything any of those companies have done that is illegal or immoral.

    If anything, the overreaction to what happened in 2008 has created a lot of the resentment we are now seeing. Dodd-Frank has been a disaster of populist-driven regulation that as is often the case when "the government comes to help people," is (and will) hurt consumers. By limiting how much banks can charge for transactions, they fucked with a free marketplace, and now we are seeing the consequences. Those banks are in business to make money for their shareholders. Tie their hands and they will start kicking with their feet to make up the revenue you are denying them. It was predictable all along

    That's not particularly a "bank" issue. If the government steps in and tells ANY business what it can and can't charge for certain services or transactions, consumers are ultimately the ones who are going to pay.

    In any case, those people have every right to protest. I personally think the President has set the tone by creating an atmosphere of scapegoating and class warfare to try to quell the unrest because of a bad economy and unemployment. And the protests we are seeing are an extension of that. When you asked "why are they protesting?" I get it, in that unemployment is high and the economy is in a stupor. People want to express their dissatisfaction. And as is often the case, the form of protest is simplistic (in my opinion).
  6. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    The idea that the middle and lower classes are responding with "class warfare" is angering. The very top has been buying off the rulemakers in the public and private sector for decades.
  7. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    This is the original premise:

  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not saying the middle and lower classes are "responding with class warfare." I am saying people are fed bullshit and they react emotionally.

    EVERY special interest has been buying off lawmakers for decades, FHB. And it ALL works to our detriment. Go to OpenSecrets.org, which is one of the most amazing website databases out there. The top lobbyists in this country over the last 25 years are disproportionately represented by labor unions and trade associations that can only exist in a world in which they receive legislative favors, because they have no bargaining leverage on their own.

    The buyoffs go both ways, and one reason I always come on here trying to convince people who are having silly Republican/Democrat arguments that there is no difference, is that there *IS* no difference.


    Check out the organizations. Check out where the money is going.

    We are a country of special interests (that includes corporations, but it also includes organizations that pretend to represent the interests of the middle and lower classes you mentioned) that sling bags of money at our legislators, who somehow have gotten to the point where they wield the power of the purse to the tune of close to $4 trillion a year. And that money doesn't go to public services. The large majority of it goes to legalized payouts to benefit one interest over another, all to the detriment of our economy, which functions best when we have a demand-driven economy, not one with power brokers corruptly diverting money from potentially productive areas of the economy to their cronies.

    If you're angry that Goldman Sachs or GE plays that game, right on. But you are fooling yourself if you don't see that it's also ActBlue (the biggest of them all) and the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees and the Teamsters playing that game, and in many cases playing it better.
  9. dixiehack

    dixiehack Well-Known Member

    On an unspoken level, I think people sense your point Ragu. There's a reason this has been a faceless, leaderless movement that didn't look to established groups for direction. And while some unions have started to join in, they've been pointedly told they are welcome to be part of it, but aren't going to hijack it.
  10. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    To get any traction it seems like the group needs to have more of a
    "Tea Party" like framework.

    At this point in our history I think it's good to see grass roots protests. As citizens the only thing that will change the tide in
    Washington is militant action.
  11. deskslave

    deskslave Active Member

    Of course, the Tea Party is a patriotic group. The Wall Street protesters are criminals.
  12. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Depends who you are talking too. From what I've read on SJ the Tea Party is the Anti Christ.
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