Vlad.....Best Active OF HOF'er?

Gator, there actually is a fairly significant gap between Guerrero and McGriff.

As spnited already pointed out, Vlad's career batting average is nearly 40 poinnts higher. His slugging percentage and OPS are also much higher. McGriff has more homers and RBI, but that is because he played four more seasons.

You also blew off the difference in speed, but you have to remember that Guerrero was a tremendous basestealing threat before injuries slowed him down. He stole 37 bases in 2001 and 40 in '02. He currently has 179 steals for his career. His speed was a weapon, at least for part of his career, something you would certainly never hear about McGriff.

You also left off Guerrero's MVP award in 2004. McGriff never finished higher than sixth in the MVP voting in his career.

 

Nailed it ... perception is a huge part of the vote.

That being said, if you took everyone out of the Hall of Fame, and the writers voted on each case again, factoring in numbers and those numbers within their era, how many wouldn't get in. Because the perception is that Ty Cobb was a complete asshole, but he's in.

Yes, it would be tough to do, because few people on the earth today (and no writers) saw Ty Cobb play a game, but it does make for good discussion. This could very well be its own thread.

 

Again, sorry to keep bringing up the same point: But the idea with this thread was that Vlad was a first-ballot guy while McGriff gained 21 percent of the vote. I'm not saying they're comparable players. But the numbers suggest that if Vlad is indeed a first-ballot guy, McGriff's case should be bolstered.

 

If the Yankees signed Vlade instead of Sheffield - they would have at least 2 more World Championships under their belt.

I'm convinced of that.

 

In time, Fred MAY get in. Vlad is definitely in there. So is Manny. Right now, in my opinion, Ichiro is a no brainer. A-Rod is a no brainer too but many will not vote for him for one reason or another.

 

Easy way to solve the argument.
Did anyone ever go to the ball park and say 'Oh boy, I can't wait to see Fred McGriff!'
Maybe.
Not nearly as many who said "Oh boy, I can't wait to see Vlad."
McGriff was a very good player, but not great. Vlad's been a great player and this season will lock him in.
Manny in. Ichiro in. A-Rod in. Jeter in.

And as an aside, three years ago I was at a tux fitting for my buddy's wedding. We were setting odds on guys who we thought were HOFs. I jokingly said Youkilis (again - a total joke) and a groomsmen said '500-1.' My buddy - who was getting married - and I gave him a buck, wrote out a contract and we still have it.
Do I think Youk makes it? No. But maybe - and this is an amazing long shot - he has 10 more years of this production, maybe I can cash in. I'm not holding my breath though.

 

Oh kick me. I forgot Jeter. He's in too.

 

I think David Murphy is in too.

 

10 more years of this production? He's 31. He's never had 170-hit season. He's never had a 30-homer season. He's never hit better than .315 in a season.

What did your buddy buy with that dollar?

 

I think David Murphy of the Philadelphia Daily News has a better shot.

 

I know this is a tangent off the topic, but Jorge Posada joined a neat club -- one of five catchers in MLB history with 250 homers, 350 doubles and 1,000 RBI. Bench, Fisk, Carter and Pudge.

 

Vlad is running himself out of the HOF in Texas. He insists on being thrown out at third for the first or third out despite not having the wheels to take the extra base anymore.

If he doesn't homer or triple, he's a liability on the base paths.