UPDATE: English apologizes: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

BRING BACK RON COOPER!!!

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

I don't need a lecture on how stereotypes and generalizations lectures work.

Your use of the word "desirable" is subjective. Desirable to whom? Based on what values? Which "piles of sociological research" are you referring to?

If people want to be prejudiced against kids from single parent families, go for it. Just don't dress it up as "reasonable" .

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

Apparently you do, because you seem to think that slapping the labels on the point makes the point invalid.

Desirable to whom? Based on what values?

I think those should be fairly obvious. You can try to muddy this up with relativism if you want, but I think we all want our kids to grow up happy, socially adept, financially solid and physically healthy. Can we agree on those as standards?

It's hard to find non-biased accounts of research on the subject, because the issue is highly emotionally charged. Some people want to obfuscate any findings so as not to offend, and other people want to hijack it to advance moral agendas.

I think this link is a good start:
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/experiments.php



To make sure we're on the same argument, I want to make sure I'm not mistaking what you are saying. Which one is the issue here:

A) The coach is wrong about his experience that kids from two-parent households are more likely to display traits he finds desirable.

B) The coach may be right, but he shouldn't use it as a criteria anyway.

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

WFFW[/drshockley]

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

Dr. Shockley's ideas have been debunked by empirical evidence. Would you like to do the same for mine?

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

Yeah, stereotypes are useful, like the one that Tylenol is preferrable to the drug store brand, tho the active ingredients are the same. That Starbucks coffee is preferrable, tho the basic ingredients are the same as what is in the can at the grocery store. That skinny is better, though tens of thousands risk death in the pursuit of that ideal.

Anyhoo, let's assume 50 percent of marriages end in divorce, and that in perhaps 80 percent of the cases, the mother gets sole custody. I just don't think any college program, much less EMU, can turn a jaundiced eye to 40 percent of its potential recruiting pool.

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

With regards to the first paragraph, so what? Stereotypes are useful until they are disproven. Those have been disproven so they are no longer useful. Would you like to take a stab at disproving the one at the center of this thread? Hopefully with something more than anecdotal evidnence?

Those assumptions aren't the greatest. The 50% divorce rate that gets thrown about is for all marriages, but it tends to be inflated by a small number of people who get divorced multiple times. The real rate of children growing up in single-parent homes is about 25%. But that's not really relevant to your point, because 25% is still a large chunk of his recruiting pool.

I'm really curious if the EMU coach is just a crackpot, or if other coaches feel the same way but would never say it on the record.

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

No, stereotypes are based on ignorance and prejudice. No one has to disprove them.

And this whole argument is tinged with an undercurrent of racism. English is not talking about white kids from affluent single parent families.

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

JR, you are aware Ron English is black, yes?

The whole discussion has moved very far afield from what English said, which is that he has found it easier to work with kids who come from two-parent households. I don't know if this is generating a lot of heat in places other than this thread. But that belief is, sociologically speaking, one of the least controversial statements a person can make.

And the reasoning here -- "I did fine, therefore Ron English is full of shit" -- it reminds me of smokers who say that because George Burns lived to 100, therefore there's no link between smoking and cancer.

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

Stereotypes is a bigger word than you think it is. I'm going to assume you mean stereotypes relating to groups of people.

Given that, I'm going to ask a question I've asked before and isn't getting answered:

Does it matter to you if he's correct? Is it morally wrong to act on a stereotype that turns out to be true? Or do you just think he's wrong, so it doesn't matter?

(I'm not asking these questions to make some sort of point, I'm genuinely curious)

I think that's an avenue worth talking about, but I'm not quite ready to jump to that conclusion.

This is the coach in question, for what it's worth:

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

Before this devolves toward a direction it is inevitably going, can I get the "some of my best friends are..." defense out of the way right now and mention that my wife was raised by only her mother from the age of one?

 

Re: EMU's Ron English offends single mothers

What's her time in the 40?