UPDATE: Cabrera over Trout for A.L. MVP

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

The entire point of sabermetrics is to objectively value baseball production.

Just because we're not capable of doing so perfectly - yet - doesn't mean that valuation is inherently subjective. It's not. It's, theoretically, objective.

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

It is a fact that a home run is more valuable than a single.

It is a fact that it is more valuable to strike out a batter than to walk him.

These are facts no less than 2 plus 2 equals 4.

Now, other valuations may be more opaque, because you are including a lot of disparate pieces, not one-to-one comparisons like the simple ones I just documented. But, make no mistake, they are objective measurable, and the entire point of sabermetrics is the search for objective valuation. It is not a matter of some guy tweaking how he weights a piece of data. This isn't U.S. News & World Report's college rankings. One doesn't get to just choose what he personally "values," and go with it.

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

Yes, in theory, value is objective. But there is no way we will ever measure it with true accuracy and precision. Therefore, the decisions we make in how to determine value are subjective. So humans deciding the value of players is a subjective process.

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

I'm a Trout guy, but I've got no problem if Cabrera wins, and I think he will win easily. I understand perfectly why people would vote for him, and some of the reasons are legitimate.

The thing that bugs me the most is the Triple Crown idea. The Triple Crown is cool, but it's more of a coincidence than anything. As Silver pointed out, if Cabrera put up the exact same numbers almost any other year, he would not have won the Triple Crown. It just has to do with what other guys do. If Josh Hamilton hadn't gone blind in the last month and hit a few more homers, would Cabrera's season have been worse? Did Cabrera get more "valuable" to the Tigers because of what Josh Hamilton did?

In fact, I'll go so far as to say this was Cabrera's worst season of the last three.

2010, 1.042 OPS, 178 OPS+
2011, 1.033, 179
2012, .999, 165

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

See, this is different than the argument I was initially countering, which was: "I personally value home runs, RBI's, and batting average. Therefore, Miguel Cabrera was more valuable."

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

The last one isn't an opinion.

The vote is taken before the playoffs.

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

One thing that isn't opinion is that the Angels won more games than the Tigers, so anyone using the playoff team argument in support of Cabrera is essentially giving Cabrera a boost for playing in a weaker division.

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

I think the idea isn't even that a playoff team is automatically better, but rather that the team was able to cash in on the player's performance tangibly with a playoff berth.

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

Still rewarding the player for playing in a weaker division. It should be just left out of the discussion.

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

I don't necessarily disagree. I'm just trying to accurately express that side's argument.

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

I honestly don't think that most people using that argument even realize that the Angels had a better record. Just tired old cliches.

 

Re: The Cabrera-Trout debate

There's certainly no bigger Trout fanboi around here than me, but I'd vote for Cabrera.

It's a triple crown, for chrissakes.