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Unemployment up to 9.2 percent. Ugly economic news.

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by The Big Ragu, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Our economy is growing, even if unemployment is 9.2 percent.

    That isn't a recession.

    It is a shitty economy.
     
  2. king cranium maximus IV

    king cranium maximus IV Active Member

    Shouldn't some here be celebrating the loss of government jobs?
     
  3. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Ragu, now you are forgetting the context of what you yourself posted: "We funneled money that the market would have allocated to potentially productive areas of the economy that could have stimulated a recovery." You are correct that a company would be silly to invest in products it couldn't sell. But following that logic, how would funneling money to those companies, instead of a government stimulus, have accomplished anything? The companies would have just said thankyouverymuch, divvied it out as bonuses to top executives and maybe dividends to shareholders, stored the rest in cash, and precisely none of it would have circulated back into the economy. That's exactly what happened after the mortgage meltdown when the banks got billions of dollars with the idea that it would kick-start the credit market. So anything "allocated" to a corporation would have had zero effect on the job market.
     
  4. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    What in the world do you think happens when a corporation -- or executives or shareholders for that matter -- "stores" cash?
     
  5. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    This site gets busier?

    http://www.ecayonline.com/home_cayman_islands_banks.html
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    LTL, I am not suggesting "funneling money" anywhere.

    I'm suggesting getting our politicians greasy, corrupt fingers out of the marketplace and letting demand dictate how money gets invested.

    Economies are cyclical by nature. In simplistic terms, they heat up when things are going well, and consumers and producers start spending too much in their exuberance, at which point it overheats and then corrects and the economy slows down. Until it slows down so much that people start to see opportunity and they begin to spend again and the economy heats up again.

    What we have done with this idea of "funneling" money is screwed up our economic cycles. We have a central bank, that under Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke purposely used interest rate policy to overheat our economy to an extreme level. It was politically motivated. Their policy kept the presidents they served in power. When the bubble they created crashed, it crashed in a spectacular way. That was/is going to take some time to clean up. Even without them fucking things up further.

    Now we are paying for it. And the sad part is that rather than backing off, they have resorted to an even EASIER money policy, with the rationale that they now need to "stimulate" the economy. At the same time, our lawmakers have been on a "fiscal policy" spending binge that has wasted trillions of dollars and created a debt crisis.

    Here is how fucked up they are. Our lawmakers have been spending like there is no tomorrow. At the same time, we have been issuing debt (treasuries) to pay for their spending. And during QE2, our central bank was buying back the debt they already issued creating even MORE debt. And the whole while, our lawmakers continue to spend, creating yet more debt.

    As long as we embark on that kind of behavior, it will be an anchor on our economy.

    Forget about "funneling" money anywhere, and you have your answer. Money has a way of finding its way to productive places on its own. Keynsian ideas about borrowing and spending don't find those productive places. It is inherently corrupt, and in our government, which is run by special interests, the money finds its ways to particularly unproductive places. It gets wasted, by and large. Not all of it. But out of $3 to $4 trillion over the last 2 + years, a large majority of it went to no good use, and now saddling us with debt. Don't bring up teachers, please. The reason Federal money was paying for teachers was because of state's enacting their own brand of fiscal irresponsibility that put them on the brink of bankruptcy, so they used Federal hand outs to buy time. There is no reason why we can't have a government (or state governments) that pay for things like teachers without trillions of dollars worth of debt.

    The hard part about all the spending they pushed through is that once people -- who worked hard through payoffs and lobbying and quid pro quos -- get their hand into that cookie jar, it is extremely difficult to get them to let go.

    So we are coming to a point where we won't have a choice but to cut our spending and/or increase taxes dramatically, but we have politicians making those decisions who are beholden to the people they put on the teet and won't force them off without a fight.

    The key here: Look at your post. Forget about "funneling" money. Let the money take care of itself. It will.
     
  7. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Why don't you tell me, since I don't know exactly what you're getting at, but one thing that does not happen is the money circulating into the American economy.
     
  8. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Does the phrase "Race to the Bottom" ring a bell with anyone?
     
  9. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    We would be better off if they stopped reporting these numbers. We also would be better off if we learned to stop living and dying by them.

    The only people who benefit by it are the traders on the right side of their bet.
     
  10. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Ragu -- I appreciate your elaboration. I just don't have any faith in the market and the American corporate structure to fix this. The link between the success of a publicly traded company and the growth of the U.S. job market and overall economy has been broken over the last 20 years.
     
  11. NickMordo

    NickMordo Active Member

    Ch-ch-ch-changes
     
  12. suburbia

    suburbia Active Member

    If unemployment is a lagging indicator, that won't trigger the consumer buying needed to trigger more hiring.

    So what will trigger more consumption? Pure Reaganomics (as the GOP espouses) won't do the trick. Nor will pure Obamanomics.

    Cutting taxes and regulation? Both are as low as they've been since World War II.

    More stimulus? We can't afford another round of it, and no way a GOP-controlled House would go for it even if we could.

    So what is the answer? Or have the last 3 years been less an economic downturn than an economic comeuppance for the United States after being the world's power for so long?
     
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