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Unemployment at lowest rate since March 2009, thanks to small businesses

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by LongTimeListener, Dec 2, 2011.

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  1. dirtybird

    dirtybird Well-Known Member

    HOLD THE PHONE. You're telling me that an organization representing small businesses (as much a buzzword as one can imagine) said small businesses are responsible for reducing the unemployment rate? Well knock me over with a feather.
     
    dirtybird, Dec 2, 2011
    #13
  2. Bob Cook

    Bob Cook Active Member

    Given that NFIB is one of the biggest beater of the "overregulation!" drum -- including filing a lawsuit to stop health reform -- I'm actually curious how the organization explains small-business job growth, when in fact NFIB's public statements are that small businesses are getting killed.
     
    Bob Cook, Dec 2, 2011
    #14
  3. BrianGriffin

    BrianGriffin Active Member

    Predictors than lean on big business and government jobs were assuming we'd stay at 9 percent. So it makes sense when the figure came in much lower that is for reasons other than government and big business jobs, right?

    Also, said organization would have it in its interest to complain that small businesses are being stifled in an effort to push through legislation they think would help small business (as in, less regulation).
     
    BrianGriffin, Dec 2, 2011
    #15
  4. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    What he said.
     
    LongTimeListener, Dec 2, 2011
    #16
  5. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    As the great Calculated Risk once noted, when small business owners complain about taxes and regulation, that means business is great!!! It's when they start complaining about sales the rest of us should worry.
     
    Michael_ Gee, Dec 2, 2011
    #17
  6. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    PS: Trade associations get paid to say it's all Washington's fault. They exist to influence Washington. Actual surveys of small business owners since 2009 have all shown most of them cite weak demand as their biggest problem.
     
    Michael_ Gee, Dec 2, 2011
    #18
  7. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    "Small business great, small," says Greater Small Business Association.
     
    Azrael, Dec 2, 2011
    #19
  8. micropolitan guy

    micropolitan guy Well-Known Member

    But yet a certain party has steadfastly contended the stimulus was an absolute failure because the unemployment rate stayed at about 9 percent, and refuses to consider where we might have been without it.

    Of course, that same party contends that if we let the Bush tax cuts on the very rich expire it will kill the job creators, but will not support the extension of the Social Security payroll tax cut without offsets from other discretionary funding.

    In other words, keep the tax cuts for the rich without any offsets, but unless we get some offsets we'll screw the average working man/woman.
     
    micropolitan guy, Dec 2, 2011
    #20
  9. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Yep, you got it.
     
    Starman, Dec 2, 2011
    #21
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    The number dropped in large part because the size of labor force dropped. More people have given up on looking for work, and they are no longer counted as unemployed. The labor force as defined for unemployment purposes, has dropped quite a bit because of people who have stopped bothering to even look for work.

    It's still a positive, though. Unemployment seems to have peaked and coupled with the US manufacturing numbers yesterday, things look better today then they did a month ago.

    I still think the whole thing is perilous. We are not an island and Europe s closer to toppling than people realize. The liquidity injection into European banks this week as a result of the coordinated efforts of all the central banks reeked of 2008 all over again. These are desperation moves with far-reaching longer-term consequences.

    The loans in dollar terms from the U.S. Federal Reserve is providing a brace for Europe. None of the European banks trust each other so liquidity had all but dried up. The U.S. shouldn't be playing this role, and even though they sold it as virtually risk free, it isn't risk free if we start seeing massive defaults leading to failures of large banks.

    Aside from the bad monetary policy implications, if Europe does collapse and we see banks failing, the spillover to the U.S. economy is going to be ugly and all these small signs of hope everyone is clinging to (unemployment numbers, manufacturing numbers) will have been meaningless and things will get a lot worse.

    Personally, I think it is a matter of when, not if. The Euro can not survive with the fiscal/debt madness that is plaguing most of its member countries. Their ability to lend is at the breaking point as demonstrated by the interest rates on the 10-year notes in Italy, for example, and there isn't going to be a bailout that can stop a massive default in one of the larger economies in the world (Italy or Spain are likely to go first), which is going to send banks spiraling out of control. The exposure to that debt is far reaching and it will hit the U.S. (just like everywhere) like a ton of bricks.

    I really think we should be bracing ourselves. We should have been for the last year. It's a matter of time. The question is when exactly do we have a black friday kind of day.
     
    The Big Ragu, Dec 2, 2011
    #22
  11. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    So they can be wrong too. Doesn't mean we have to be wrong with them. Two wrongs don't make a right.
     
    RickStain, Dec 2, 2011
    #23
  12. Bob Cook

    Bob Cook Active Member

    Ragu, I'm no financial expert, but I'm wondering when the Chinese bubble collapses. There have been all sorts of indications that China is hurtling toward a hard fall.
     
    Bob Cook, Dec 2, 2011
    #24
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