Torture: McCain vs. Mukasey

YankeeFan · May 13, 2011

Yeah, while I think it would have been worth it to capture and interrogate bin laden (and think the current administrations fears of how to deal with him is why they preferred him dead vs. alive), I have no proble with the operation or how the credit has been spread.

But, when I see Ed Schultz launch into a fill throated defense of the Navy SEALs -- Cheney's assassination squad -- and praise a unilateral military operation in a sovereign nation, I wonder where all this support was in previous years.

Boom_70 · May 13, 2011

YankeeFan said:

Yeah, while I think it would have been worth it to capture and interrogate bin laden (and think the current administrations fears of how to deal with him is why they preferred him dead vs. alive), I have no proble with the operation or how the credit has been spread.

But, when I see Ed Schultz launch into a fill throated defense of the Navy SEALs -- Cheney's assassination squad -- and praise a unilateral military operation in a sovereign nation, I wonder where all this support was in previous years.
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What we are seeing is a complete about face in what was once a basic tenet of liberal principles.

In effect ( is this correct usage Luggy?) the Obama administration has adopted The Bush Cheney principles of fighting global terror. Thankfully I might add.

YankeeFan · May 13, 2011

Democrats are always going to have a better opportunity to wage war.

Drone attacks are way up under Obama.

And, incredibly, civilians stopped getting killed by them in January 2009.

The Big Ragu · May 13, 2011

YankeeFan said:

The Big Ragu said:

Whenever someone starts a sentence with something like, "By your standards," you can rest assure they are going to do something strained.

The world had no problem with us taking out Osama Bin Laden. It was seen as just, given the scope of 9/11. There is no argument here.

Interpol is not on the case. Imagine that.

And the Mossad is still the Mossad. When their agents -- which have a history of doing extralegal things that much of the rest of the world DOES NOT approve of -- end up on surveillance cameras, and then Interpol posters, it was a fuck up. A collossal fuck up.

No amount of obtuseness equates two things that don't equate to each other.
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Yeah, the rest of the world does not approve of Israel's actions. I'm stunned.
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It doesn't matter what the world thinks of Israel. You have stated several times that 1) the Dubai assassination was a successful operation, and 2) You have tried to equate an assassination of a guy you had never even hear of before the fiasco with the assassination of the world's most notorious man, who killed thousands of people, including more than 3,000 on 9/11.

Here is something about that successful Dubai operation of yours I just found via Google:

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-issues/201101/the-dubai-job-mossad-assassination-hamas?printable=true

You will never see things like that written about our operation to take out Bin Laden. The ONLY critical article I could foresee might be "Why did it take 10 years?"

Bob Cook · Dec 15, 2014

Boom_70 said:

Bob - no

For me its one of being puzzled. For years all we heard was how Bush trashed the constitution. We also heard that the terrorists should be dealt with in a criminal manner and not a military manner.

Now many of the same people are arguing the other way in case of Bin Laden.
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I prefaced this by saying the Bush administration and the professional right. While I'm sure you're motivated by nothing more than a concern that liberals are failing in their lofty and laudable standards, the Bushies and the Fox News' of the world are doing everything they can to credit their guy, and discredit Obama as much as possible, about bin Laden. Because you know that if bin Laden had been killed under Bush, we would have gotten this:

And not without good reason.

LongTimeListener · May 13, 2011

Bob Cook is all over this one. The only places this "debate" exists is where people are so obviously loath to give Obama credit for anything, and they see the 80+ pct thumbs-up from the American public and they get desperate.

YankeeFan · May 13, 2011

The Big Ragu said:

2) You have tried to equate an assassination of a guy you had never even hear of before the fiasco with the assassination of the world's most notorious man, who killed thousands of people, including more than 3,000 on 9/11.
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You're right. This guy isn't comparable to bin Laden in any way.

If only he had a better PR guy, maybe then you would approve of his killing.

This is the guy that you don't think deserved to be killed:

Al-Mabhouh has been on the Mossad's list of assassination targets (see box on page 40) since 1989, after he and an accomplice named Muhammad Nasser abducted and murdered two Israeli soldiers near the Negev Desert in southern Israel. In an interview he gave to the Al Jazeera network, Al-Mabhouh recalled one of those killings in detail. "We disguised ourselves as religious Jews with skullcaps on our heads like rabbis," he said. He went on to describe picking up the soldier, Avi Sasportas, at a place called Hodayah Junction and offering him a ride. "I was driving, and the door behind me was neutralized. We took care of that beforehand. I told him in Hebrew, 'Get in on the other side, the door's broken.' He walked around and sat in the back seat. I and Abu Sahib [Nasser] had a predetermined signal. We had fixed that at the right moment I would make a sign with my hand, because I could see what was happening on the road in front and behind. And indeed, about three kilometers after the crossroads I signaled to Abu Sahib. Abu Sahib shot him with his Beretta pistol. I heard him breathe heavily and die. He took two bullets in the face and one in the chest and died from the first shot. Breathed out and that's it, finished." The only thing he regretted, Al-Mabhouh said, was that he was driving the car at the time, and so it was Nasser who got to shoot the soldier in the face.

In both killings, the two men desecrated the soldiers' bodies and photographed each other stomping triumphantly on them before burying them in a ditch by the roadside. (The body of the second soldier wasn't discovered until seven years later, with the aid of a hand-drawn map that Al-Mabhouh and Nasser had sketched from memory after the killing. In a deal mediated by the Palestinian Authority, Nasser eventually handed over the sketch to Israel, and in exchange he was removed from Israel's most-wanted list.)

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/big-issues/201101/the-dubai-job-mossad-assassination-hamas?printable=true
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Boom_70 · May 13, 2011

Bob - again - no.

For me it's all about intellectual honesty.

Pretty lengthy article but worth the time if you want to learn more about the inconsistencies in how the liberals viewed Bush approach, to now how they justify Obama approach.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/05/10/democrats/index.html

The Big Ragu · May 13, 2011

FYI: Removed my last post. Thread was locked while I was gone, and I am not sure why, so I'll leave it without my post hanging.

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Torture: McCain vs. Mukasey

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Torture: McCain vs. Mukasey

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