Top 20 pitchers of all time?

I don't think deadball pitchers have ever 'lobbed' the ball to the plate. I think any sensible baseball fan or player would agree with Mathewson that stamina is important, but I don't think the suggestion that he didn't have to throw hard is correct. Pitchers of Mathewson's era were as competitive and skilled as pitchers are today, they just pitched differently than today's pitchers (and I think today's pitchers would be more durable and effective if they took a lesson from guys like Matty). Now it's all about throwing heat and hitting home runs- Not so 100 years ago

I would guess that pitchers of around the turn of the 20th century threw with less velocity on average, but NOT because they were incapable of throwing as hard as pitchers today. The offensive approach to baseball has an effect on how pitchers throw, and vice versa. In eras where base hits were key, I think it was simply more prudent for pitchers to throw yellow hammers, knee bucklers, and other off-speed pitches rather than fastballs. A contact hitter would feast on a pitcher who lived by the fastball (except in rare cases, such as the superhuman Walter Johnson or Joe Wood, to name a couple) I disagree that pitchers of modern day have the ability to throw harder than those of yesteryear, but I'd bet that they do throw more fastballs today than they used to in previous eras.

 

I'm assuming Stoney was joking when he said Ryan was undisputably clean due to the timing of his career, though I don't think you heard accusations of steroid use in baseball until the late '80s and early '90s.

All due respect to the strikeouts and no-hitters, a pitcher's job is to keep the other team from scoring runs, so ERA has to factor in as well.

 

Interesting story the Google spit out:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22813611

Hmmmmm ...

 

You guys do know steroids were invented long before 1990. Ask Steve Courson, et al.

 

Reggie Jackson's sudden bulking-up in 1972-73, which came right on the heels of the first major doping scandal (mainly focused on Soviet-bloc Olympic athletes) drew plenty of whispers.

 

You guys do know my tongue was firmly in cheek when I suggested otherwise, right?

 

Why did we need a separate thread on this?

Actually, that's a stupid question on my part. I'll rephrase it - why do we have a separate thread?

 

How many of the 20 did you actually see pitch?
How do you know Walter Johnson is better than Roger Clemens?
What do you know about any picher -- other than what you've read and stats -- prior to say 198u0?

 

It's called studying the game, watching clips, reading books, reading newspaper clippings from that era. There's so many resources out there, maybe you should look into it and you could learn a little about it as well. I'm sure you have a library near where you live.

 

You've "watched clips" of Cy Young, Three Fingers Brown and Kid Nichols play? Where?

Sorry, but none of those resources provide any reliable basis for making ranking comparisons of late 19th century pitchers to today's brand as if they're playing on the same field under similar conditions. It's just silly to believe otherwise.

 

You're just mad because he didn't ran Nolan Ryan high enough.

 

If the deadball pitchers pitched today with the stuff they had, they'd get hit all over the yard.
If today's pitchers pitched back then, they'd never give up a hit.

But since that's a totally ridiculous argument, we can only go by what they faced. While I think today's pitchers are better, the deadball guys were tremendous for their era.