Tonight's Dem Debate - Ohio

Re: Tonight's Dem Debate

Is it hypertechnical to point out that half of the description that you attributed to him as the worst of our generation didn't apply to him at all?

 

Re: Tonight's Dem Debate

It was her dark suit that gave her a more serious look although when she stood up suit had a bit of Captain Kangaroo quality.

 

Re: Tonight's Dem Debate

Ok, claims to be a lifelong Yankees fan, and a lifelong Cubs fan, and now a Giants fan.
Nah, she's not a fake.

 

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Hatred? Disturbing?
I don't want her dead, just not leading this country.
Or a PTA, for that matter.

 

Re: Tonight's Dem Debate

I think Hillary's "Wait a second, I want change, too" stance will prove to be too little, too late (and why the hell did it take so long to realize that acting like an incumbent wasn't the best way to handle this campaign?). I also think her calling Obama a plagiarist to help make that point is immature and won't work. I think Hillary's fucked up an election she should have won, and it will take a major Obama mistake to get back in it.

But then again, what do I know?

 

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Her "I found my voice" bullshit killed her too.
How many people said, it took this long?

 

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It's was not enough for her to keep it close tonight. She needed a knockout, which I don't think she got – although it's clear she finished strong.

Obama used the rhetorical version of a boxer's clinch by agreeing with her on a lot of stuff.

Her "Xerox" line drew audible boos from the crowd, so you won't hear that from her again, I presume.

I personally think his stance on personal, no-strings diplomacy with despots is a dreadful mistake, but I'm sure it plays well with the peace-at-any-cost crowd.

 

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I agree, Henry, I hate the idea of the personal diplomacy, it's giving too much credence to those who deserve none.

 

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I don't see how speaking with them is a horrible idea. What could it hurt?

 

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It makes them legit.
Would the US have negotiated with Hitler?

 

Re: Tonight's Dem Debate

Sigh. MarkVid makes the point much better than me, and in less words.

Hi ho.

I'm always reminded of the scientist in The Thing who just wanted to communicate with the giant carrot monster – James Arness long before Gunsmoke, by the way.

Diplomacy exists for a reason. It allows the United States to maintain formal relationships with even the most repugnant regimes at some level or other. (There is an American Interest Section office in Havana, as I recall, even if there is no embassy.)

MarkVid plays the Hitler card -- nicely done. To bring it into 2008, let us take Iran as an example. The leader of Iran has vowed the destruction of Israel, and by that I assume he doesn't intend to do that by trade embargo. For the president of the U.S. to meet, face-to-face, with that leader without precondition would be folly. In that part of the world, the Iran-friendly media would make it out to be the U.S. president coming on bended knee in hopes of finding favor with the Ultimate Leader or whatever. It would hang our friend and allies out to dry – something a few of Obama's key advisers seem to favor.

Ditto North Korea. Ditto pre-war Iraq. Ditto post-Marine-ouster Toledo, for that matter.

Even Obama has softened, somewhat, his rhetoric on this. I think tonight he said he would not meet with the leader of Cuba without some human rights assurances. Clinton's line of attack at the time he first laid out this open-door policy – and this was, jeez, maybe July of last year – was to suggest that it sounded hopelessly naive in a world where a lot of people want to kill us Just Because.

I agreed with her then and agree with her now.

 

Re: Tonight's Dem Debate

Maybe. Some tried to, with little effect obviously.

"I have, in my hand, a piece of paper....."

But the concept of trying to talk to leaders of countries you perceive as hostile shouldn't be seen as weak. It should be seen as an attempt at diplomacy. If it fails, and you have to resort to other options, at least you can say you tried to reason with them first.

It's not like Cuba poses the threat that Iran or North Korea do, unless you believe the residents of South Florida. I see no reason not to talk to them.