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tom jolly/"sports of the times" columnists

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by shockey, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Shockey - in the late 90's / early 2000's you could make an argument that The Times had the best sports section in NY. They had a stable of thought provoking columnists, great feature writers and great beat reporters. It is no longer the case as to many talents walked out the door.
     
  2. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member


    . . . except for the fact that a good deal of time and energy was expended
    on stuff which appealed to about 1 1/2% of the readership, and/or solely
    the Hamptons bunch . . . and we won't even talk about ol' Howell. I love
    college football, but the overwhelming majority of the non-gambling
    NYC-metro area sports crowd doesn't give a rat's ass.
     
  3. JackS

    JackS Member

    I'm sure I'm biased, but let me put it this way, I don't think it's worse. There's some great reporting going on. I'm happy to read Mr. Araton again, but I don't mourn the cut in columns.
     
  4. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    well, there you have it.... ;)

    there's ALWAYS been "great reporting" going on in the times sports section. i prefer my sports section to be a bit more well-rounded, though. just dunno why the voices could not co-exist with the excellent reportage. just seems there's more at work here; perhaps even the times acknowledges it's been losing tons of money and this is an effective way to keep salaries under control, to some extent. i dunno. and i've got no problem admitting i dunno.
     
  5. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Not sure why you're of intolerant of disagreement.

    And with no dog in the NYT hunt, "analysis" is not always, or even often, the same as "opinion."
     
  6. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    to whom is this directed at an could you please clarify your point, az?
     
  7. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    I see that you elaborated considerably on your point after I posted.

    "Well there you have it..." being by itself a fairly snide comeback.

    Also, opinion and analysis aren't the same thing. Opinion is everywhere and nearly valueless. Well delivered expert analysis is a thing rare enough you can sell it.
     
  8. Ben_Hecht

    Ben_Hecht Active Member


    You said it, buster.
     
  9. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    that goes to the issue of what a column is or should be. i agree with my former bosses who insisted columns be more than simply an opinion anyone could write from his couch, as so many "columnists" lazily do today; having your picture with your piece doesn't mean it should be all about you; again, that's sports-talk radio.

    it's still journalism and we are still supposed to be informing, after all. and newspaper sports columnists are in a position to deliver me, the reader, the goods due to the access he/she has to the participants that i don't. i want my columnist voice to do his due diligence, depend upon him to come to an intelligent conclusion and be gifted enough as a writer to express this deftly. not all ace reporters can pull this off. it's why the position has always been one of such high standing.

    it's gotta be more than just what you think. tell me why you think it while you're at it. teach me something. the best do this. and having this as a part of my sports section is important. to me, anyway.
     
  10. SF_Express

    SF_Express Active Member

    As much as I strongly believe what I've said enough, I agree with Frank, 21, and others:

    My thoughts on this are based on the idea that you have the people to pull it off. And in fact, I started thinking this way in the early 1980s at papers that DID have the people to pull it off. And to make it even more personal, I always thought when I was a beat writer that I could pull it off.

    But I'll agree that for some beat guys, effective analysis and columnizing simply isn't in their DNA. And then you have exceptions to that approach.

    This has always been my favorite philosophical discussion regarding our business. I've had some tremendous barroom, um, "discussions" with people in our business about it, including some I respect more than anybody but who don't agree with me on this -- or, to be fair, didn't before the entire landscape changed.
     
  11. Versatile

    Versatile Active Member

    For what it's worth, some of the analysis pieces written by their national beat writers have been brilliant. Tyler Kepner, in particular, has shined in the role since taking it from Jack Curry, who also did a fantastic job.
     
  12. JackS

    JackS Member

    The voices aren't gone completely. Do you have any examples of papers you think are more well-rounded? Particularly in today's tight climate?

    And by the way, I didn't take your comment as snide. I know the deal.
     
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