1. Welcome to SportsJournalists.com, a friendly forum for discussing all things sports and journalism.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register for a free account to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.
    • Fewer ads.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Thomas Friedman on education: 'There is no secret'

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    You're right. No more nuance to it than that. Buncha malingering ne'er do wells. Not like the private school beacons who teach their students that the beareded magic man in the clouds built the mountain.
     
  2. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I'm willing to concede that, in her ditzy little world, people pass around motivational posters like that.

    I'm surprised that you aren't willing to concede that her little look-at-me stunt and, in particular, the word "excuse," might be off-putting to people who aren't Crossfit evangelists.

    Bottom line: Hot chicks can get away with a lot of shit that others couldn't.
     
  3. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    No, they're big on holding their children accountable. And then they make sure their children are accountable to teachers and the school. It's not easy to do for middle class Americans whose immigrant forebearers came to this country 2-5 generations ago.The relative affluence of the children of 2nd generation Americans and beyond makes the task of keeping those children focused on school and achievement difficult. It's one thing watching your parents and grandparents working multiple shit jobs to provide food, clothes and shelter that could be lost with a missing paycheck. But todays children, like the Gen X and kids born in the 60's (not of the 60's), don't see poverty in their family, a struggle to get more but not a struggle to survive.

    Asians, like their Jewish counter-parts 100 years ago, are self made and self motivated. They'll take the education thats offered and excel, they'll learn and not wait to have education spoon fed. Both cultures put a premium on education, hard work and to expect the rest of the world to be hostile not indulgent and cooperative. That will fade as affluence is taken for granted rather earned.
     
  4. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Is there more nuance? Sure.

    But, what's the bottom line? Do we have standards? Why not?

    We can't agree on standards. We certainly can't rely on student tests. We certainly can't test teachers to make sure they're proficient in their subject.

    When we identify a substandard teacher, there is often no effort to remove him/her, and if an effort is made, it's a difficult process.

    Kids are promoted, even if they haven't mastered the material covered in their current grade. This just puts them in a lesser position to succeed.

    The material covered has been watered down too. All of this "remedial" education we offer to people looking to change careers? In the old days, you would have learned the material in high school, or earlier. We're teaching adults, basic English and math skills. That's fucked up.

    And we make every excuse in the book for parents who don't get their kids to school on a consistent basis, or get them there on time. Instead of asking why they haven't been fed before school, we just feed them.

    We've had generational failure in public schools. Generational.

    Kids, are born and die in the same public housing project, and attend the same failing public schools their parents went too -- often with the same teachers.

    What's the definition of insanity?
     
  5. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Yes, the American public school system is awful. The NYT story on American workers a couple weeks ago should prove that.

    But it's a systemic problem, beginning with the fact that most teachers come from the bottom third of their college classs, whereas you just want to union-bust, the solution for everything.

    Remember, part of your solution is that a flood of corporate law partners and cardio surgeons are itching to flood in and teach kids their colors for $30,000 a year.
     
  6. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    What school system pays $30,000?

    Teaching positions are in high demand. The pay, for the time, convenient schedule, benefits, and pension is highly valued by today's workers.

    And, I'd be happy to pay teachers even more, if it got us better teachers, instead of just giving the current crop of teachers more money.

    But, the teaching profession doesn't want better teachers, with proven credentials. They are far more interested in protecting the current teachers. They don't want the competition.

    If you didn't go and get an education degree straight out of high school, it's not easy to break in. By design.

    We also need to look at some of the schools granting education degrees. Some of them should be shut down.
     
  7. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Most investment bankers are failed elementary school teachers who just couldn't break through the union's stranglehold on those lucrative positions.
     
  8. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    What were the standards in the 30's and 40's. Or the 50's and 60's or even 70's?

    How did the depression kids ever learn, the baby boomers? For all their self indulgence, whining, and materialism most of the baby boom generation appeared to be rather educated andsuccessful without standardized tests and constant teacher evaluation. These teachers, primarily smart women who were denied entry into the middle class and professional work force, were not overly trained as social workers nor were they overly trained in their specialty. Not a lot of chem/ math majors in the 50's and 60's became Jr High and High School teachers. Spanish was taught by those that could speak it but not teach it (FUCK YOU SENORA ROJAS).

    Too much freedom to todays children and to many expectations that a livelihood will be provided rather than earned. This applies to all Americans, not just middle class white kids.

    As much as I love a permissive culture, a libertarian outlook with the rewards of materialism, I fear we are living in the decline of democratic empire.
     
  9. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    It was easier to be successful then. You could get a factory job and retire with a pension. And the fact that the United States had an educational system at all put it well ahead of most of the rest of the world, which then copied it and improved upon it.

    The '30s and '40s are not the aspirational model. South Korea and Finland are.
     
  10. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    My nephews' school system, apparently:

    http://www1.salary.com/IN/Elkhart/Teacher-Elementary-School-salary.html
     
  11. amraeder

    amraeder Well-Known Member

    First state I looked at was Arkansas. Depending on where you're starting, you could make $29K fresh out of college. A lot pay around $30K or $31K. A couple are $40K (I assume they're urban districts, but who knows). The first salary scale I found in Mississippi has teachers starting at $30.9K.
     
  12. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    In general, our country is fat, and pretty dumb. And a lot of people don't have a problem with it. I was just reading the justifications/excuse making that people do here FOR NOT READING TO THEIR KIDS http://www.sportsjournalists.com/forum/threads/97843/

    Of course, there is no secret. But plenty of excuse-making.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page