This was wrong then...

That's just it -- the Vatican has been very clear about its views on this war so I'm not sure how that even got brought up. Oh that's right, clueless brought it up.

 

Ziggy,

The problem I -- and most others I suspect -- have with these conservative religious voting blocs is that they only seem to be concerned with abortion, its cousin stem cell research and gay rights.

If the religious flocks went to the ballot rallying around some different "religious" issues like poverty or peace or religious freedom there would be a whole different reaction.

These are just red meat issues and codes to raise money and draw in suckers.

 

Ace --

That, and the bastardization of faith for political gain.

 

No these are the issues that seem to be at the heart of the cultural struggle between right and left in this country and thus these "conservative blocs" (as if there aren't blocs of religious left voters) face the greatest opposition and thus the most publicity in these areas.

And Churches deal with poverty on their own and they for the most part do a wonderful job of showing compassion and helping out the poor not just here, but around the world.

 

Yeah, that's it.

Again, I love people who apparantly have no faith yet claim to be experts as to (a) what people of faith want and or need and how they are supposed to act.

 

I'm not applying my moral compass. I'm simply trying to get others to stop trying to apply THEIR moral compass to me.

Simple enough of an idea, huh?

 

In essence, Zag, I'm asking you (or Catholics) to keep your Pope and his opinions out of my business and the business of my nation. The day the Pope pays taxes in this country is the day he has the right to tell me how things should be done.

 

Dammit, JFK settled this stupidity in his speech to the Baptist ministers in Houston in 19-freaking 60.

"I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute; where no Catholic prelate would tell the President -- should he be Catholic -- how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference, and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him, or the people who might elect him."

The red-hats should get lost. (I almost said they should "bugger off" but I didn't want to encourage them.)

 

So when you go to vote -- what do you use to determine who you will vote for? The greater good of society or the guy who most aligns with what you believe? Isn't that the same thing?

Again, why is it OK for you to vote for someone who supports abortion and stem cell research but not OK for a religious person to vote against the same guy?

How do you make your choices? How do you decide who to vote for? Why is it more right for you to make choices based on your values, your beliefs and whatever else but not a religious person?

 

That isn't what this is, though.
This is the hierarchy of an estrablished church using its (tax-exempt) status to influence secular politics and, in doing so, proposing a de facto religious test for office, something that is expressly forbidden in Article IV of the Constitution.
If they want to be this active in secular politics, let them pay taxes like everyone else.

 

If a person votes against a pro-abortion candidate because they don't believe in abortion, that's fine. If they vote against a pro-abortion candidate because the Pope says all good Catholics should do so, that's not fine. That's a non-American trying to determine the fate and future of this country. And any who follow his precept, not their conscience, is un-American in my book.

How do I make my choices? I vote for the person who I feel will be best for this country. The concept of self-sacrifice -- doing something for the greater good instead of your own good -- seems hopelessly lost in this country.

 

Nobody is talking about the Pope running our country and you know it. Catholics get their "marching orders" from the Pope is obviously a figure of speech and nobody that I can see is advocating mixing religion and lawmaking -- which is different than politics, by the way.

Catholics need to "vote their conscience" and have the right to, just like you.