This was wrong then...

So if your church, for example, says that women cannot be in a leadership position in the church, you just accept it and go on?

What about the many churches where women can be ministers? Are they wrong because they refused to follow lockstep what had been told was right?

Religions have always evolved, like it or not.

 

Didn't the late Pope come out against our war in Iraq?

Why isn't the litmus test for Catholics that they MUST vote for an anti-war candidate?

Oh, right, because these people are two-bit huckster politicians masqerading as religious leaders.

And useful idiots like zagoshe are their stock-in-trade.

Money in the bank, as it were.

 

I'm an American first and a Catholic, oh around #793, just before curling enthusiast.

The Catholic Church's policies and politics work perfectly if this were the year 1507. Just a few centuries of catch up needed...

 

WFFW.

 

What is this, the run-up to the 1960 election? Are we really still asking this question? So it's OK to take orders from Jerry Falwell, because he's an American, even if his orders are daffy?

A couple of other things:

1. The when-are-(insert ethnic or religious group)-here question is really never a fair one. Not all blacks are responsible for Al Sharpton, not all Muslims are responsible for al-Qaeda, and not all Catholics are responsible for William Donohue. It's just that often the extreme voices tend to be the loudest and most committed, so it's hard for the mushy middle to swamp them.

2. FH, my kids go to a Catholic school (my wife grew up Catholic, I didn't), and we wrestle with your questions all the time. We're generally OK with the school, but oftentimes the way they run things are based on the fact that we're all good little Catholics and will jump anytime someone says jump. On one hand, you can applaud the church for sticking to its rules and principles. On the other, some change has to happen for the the church to turn around. Then again, some change is happening. The influx of Latinos from conservative church cultures is the church's best hope in America, and there's a thought that organized religion is best served by becoming MORE conservative, not less. The Atlantic Monthly had a good story a few years back about how organized religion was growing in developing countries, and developing very conservatively, enough to keep things humming while liberal Europeans and Americans opt out.

One of the best cases for Catholicism, I think, is that the church tends to not make you feel guilty about drinking and gambling.

 

No I find a church that holds the beliefs that I do.

 

Yeah, because you might be rubbing shoulders with the priests or bishop.

Whereas if you see your Baptist minister in a bar, you both duck out the back door.

 

No, I'm not talking about watering down the message. I'm talking about remembering that as a voter, whether you have faith or not, you're voting as an American. If people want to vote their faith, they need to remember that not everyone shares their beliefs or faith. The idea of responsibility, a concept lost on far too many people it seems, is that you're voting not for yourself but for all Americans. You use your beliefs to guide your vote, but who in fact are you voting for? The Pope or America?

 

I'm sure if there were any candidates preaching about going to war the Vatican would be telling its followers to stay clear of them. And most Catholics I know, including my parents and just about every one of my family members do believe that this war is wrong and thus they are looking to vote for the candidate they feel most likely won't get us into a conflict such as this again.

Unfortunately for you and your, as usual, ridiculous attempt to make a comparison between apples and oranges, every candidate is doing their best to run as far away from the war as possible for a lot of reasons.

That's what puts the other social issues at the forefront of every church, not just the Catholic church. Baptists have similar concerns about Rudy, as do those who attend Assemblies of God churches and church of God in christ and so on and so forth.

People who are devout in their religion and their faith will vote their convictions.

 

Why is there a different standard for religious people?

When you vote, do you vote your convictions? Do you vote on the things that are your values? Do you vote against things that are contrary to your values?

Why is it OK for you -- after all, the whole country doesn't agree with your value system -- to use a moral compass when you vote and not people who are devout in their religions?