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This was wrong then...

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by zeke12, Jun 1, 2007.

  1. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

  2. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    So why were the conservatives opposed to Harriet Miers? Couldn't have been just general incompetence.
  3. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

    The track record surely indicates that incompetence has not been a deal-breaker.
  4. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    Considering the originator of the thread, it isn't a surprise that it is an asinine, knee-jerk leftie whine from jump street. It is clever how he through Kerry's name in there as a means of trying to make it seem like this isn't just another one of his silly way off base left-wing rants.

    Ask the Pope, who I am guessing should be in touch with what Catholics believe in, how he feels about a Rudy Guiliani presidential bid. Rudy stands for just about everything Catholics oppose or are supposed to oppose, at least from the social issues standpoint.

    Catholics SHOULD be opposed to Rudy if they are practicing and are taking their marching orders from the Vatican.
  5. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    From whom do you take your marching orders, Zags?
  6. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    Well considering how much money parents spent sending me to Catholic school and all of the effort the spent forcing me to go to CCD classes - I guess I should say the Pope, or the Archbishop, but I'll be honest in the past ten years I've become very much disillusioned by the men in the funny hats and organized religion in general.

    I go to church every week, I volunteer for charity events and give my money to the local fire departments and whatnot when they come calling, so I suppose I'll just say I take my marching orders from the big "G" himself.....
  7. alleyallen

    alleyallen Guest

    Which begs the greater question: Do Catholics consider themselves Catholics first and Americans second or vice-versa? I'm not trying to attack Catholics, but if they follow the word of the Pope first, then aren't they being disloyal to America?
  8. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    No -- unless the Pope starts talking about bombing innocent countries.....oh wait a minute....

    Seriously, though, there are better choices for Catholics than Rudy. They can still vote, they can still be involved in the process, so there isn't anything un-American about it.

    I would hope that whatever your faith is, you'd think of yourself as a muslim, Jew, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist -- first and an American second so as your decisions are made based on the things that line up with your values.
  9. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    There is a move among many in the church to become more and more exclusive these days. The church has always had a problem with anyone who isn't a priest bringing a different point of view of things and debating it honestly. Not every priest, but the leadership. And the leaders of the church are, lets face it, just men. They're human and can be wrong, but they're so arrogant they can't see themselves for the modern Pharisees they've become. The shift towards exclusion, condemnation, and arrogance flies in the face of everything the gospels tell us and many of those in leadership positions don't even see the contradictions. There's a right way and a wrong way to reach out to people, and judging by the declines world-wide in church attendance and the major decline in the number of new priests every year, they might want to re-think how they do things.
  10. alleyallen

    alleyallen Guest

    Not sure that I'd agree, especially if my faith is controlled or mandated by someone not American. Essentially, if you vote first as a Catholic and second as an American, you're essentially letting the Pope decide what's best for America.

    Sorry, but I consider that un-American in all respects. When I was in the military, one inescapable fact was (thankfully) pounded into my thoughts: You're an American first, and everything else second.

    We all are (except for the Canucks, of course).
  11. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    Again, are you talking about watering down their message so as to not offend people?

    See I see faith and religion as having to draw a line in the sand and say this is right and this is wrong, otherwise why bother?

    Why bother being devoted to a faith if you knowlingly and willfully break the rules that you think cramp your lifestyle or your view of what they should or shouldn't be?

    Faith SHOULD be absolute, at least from where I sit.
  12. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    Are you? Really? Or are you letting your convictions vote for you?
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