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This new rule could reveal the huge gap between CEO pay and worker pay

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by YankeeFan, Aug 5, 2015.

  1. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    And, I probably should add ... When you (JayFarrar) have done all that (especially part 1), I'd be thrilled to handle the methodological work on that paper we could write. I could use another top-tier hit on my vita -- and that sort of thing would definitely fly at that level -- but I'd gladly serve as second author.
     
  2. NoOneLikesUs

    NoOneLikesUs Active Member

    I guess it's only called class warfare when there is an attempt at a counter attack, otherwise it continues to be a massacre.
     
  3. JayFarrar

    JayFarrar Well-Known Member

    My understanding is that high-frequency trading didn't start until 1998 or 1999 and that those trades now account for at least 50 percent of all activity.

    My ballpark guess of a 10,000 point differential is right on as trading was around 7,500 in 1997 and today it closed at 17,540.47. It was over 18,000 less than a month ago. As an aside, when I played the stock market game in high school, the Dow traded 1,700 or less than 10 percent of what it is now. As a PPS, I also won the stock market game because I correctly guessed that shoe company stock would go up during and immediately after the NCAA tournament because those companies would see increased sales leading to higher stock prices.

    Since the advent of HFT, the numbers have been consistently going up to the point that 20,000 is in sight.

    Also, the number of people who day trade and the number of people who are less sophisticated investors are also both up and they are much more like to have a quick reaction to what they perceive is good or bad news.

    Those things all seem to me make the stock market a different beast with a different set of rules.

    One of the things noted in the VQR piece was the lack of more recent scholarly work, which is curious and might make for an interesting read.
     
  4. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    "Actually, there’s been class warfare going on for the last 20 years, and my class has won. We’re the ones that have gotten our tax rates reduced dramatically."

    -- Warren Buffett
     
  5. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Bullshit

    If you are not selling enough goods or services, you cut overhead. The largest budget lines in most companies is HR and benefits.

    Why eBay, American Express, Baker Hughes Are Laying Off Workers

    eBay: 2,400 jobs
    On Wednesday, eBay announced it would be cutting 2,400 jobs in the first quarter of 2015. The company says that the layoff figure includes positions that are unfilled, so the actual number of people losing their jobs will be less than 2,400. What’s more, eBay points out that the figure represents only 7% of the company’s total workforce. (Are we the only ones surprised to hear that eBay currently employs 34,600 people?)

    Among the factors influencing the layoff decision: “Weak holiday sales” and revenues that have been lower than analysts expected, as well as a company restructuring in anticipation of the spinoff of eBay’s online payment service PayPal. The company said it may also spin off a third division, eBay Enterprises, which runs e-commerce operations for other companies, explaining in a statement: “It has become clear that [eBay Enterprise] has limited synergies with either business, and a separation will allow both to focus exclusively on their core markets.”

    American Express: 4,000 jobs
    During the course of 2015, AmEx plans on cutting costs by trimming 4,000 jobs after failing to meet long-term revenue growth target of 8%. The Wall Street Journal pointed to “a stronger dollar, a weak December for retail sales and the sharp drop in gas prices” as forces that hurt the company’s fourth quarter results—which actually showed revenue and profits increasing, just not enough to satisfy investors. The 4,000 layoffs represent 6% of AmEx’s total workforce of roughly 63,000.

    Baker Hughes & Halliburton: 8,000 jobs
    The two energy companies agreed to merge last autumn, and both ended the year strongly, with Halliburton posting revenues up nearly 15% and Baker Hughes achieving record revenues for the quarter. Nonetheless, in light of plunging crude oil and gas prices, oilfield services provider Baker Hughes announced plans for layoffs of 11% of its workforce, roughly 7,000 employees, while Halliburton plans for about 1,000 job cuts of its own.

    “This is really the crappy part of the job, and this is what I hate about this industry frankly,” Baker Hughes CEO Martin Craighead said this week in a conference call with analysts. “This is the industry, and it’s throwing us another one of these downturns, and we’re going to be good stewards of our business and do the right thing. But these are never decisions that are done mechanically.”


    Do you think Baker and Halli will turn profits next year?
     
  6. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    It's not that there isn't recent scholarly work, it's that the recent work is just working around the edges, explaining (or attempting to explain) residual variation. The thrust of the 1997 piece is, like the others of its vintage, the operative view.

    Today's market may be different in drivers of trading volume, but there's certainly no reason to think it's less efficient than it was before. And the suggestion that CEOs harm their firms' long-run prospects for short-term gains rests completely on a view of markets as fundamentally inefficient. I may be an especially vocal proponent of the efficient markets hypothesis, but you're going to have a helluva time finding credible advocates for a view of markets that are that inefficient.
     
  7. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I should probably explain one thing, and that's that a negative abnormal return doesn't necessarily mean the stock's return was negative. Rather, it was negative relative to what it was estimated it would have been that day under normal circumstances. So, maybe the market as a whole was up that day, but the stock in question wasn't up as much as it normally would have been. Works the other way -- i.e., it was down more than it otherwise would be -- too.
     
  8. JohnHammond

    JohnHammond Well-Known Member

    Anyone else chuckling at 93Devil's "Gotcha!" that supports Ragu's point about companies not gutting for a short-term increase stock price? (Hint for 93Devil: Check Halliburton's latest revenue report and crude oil prices.)
     
  9. JimmyHoward33

    JimmyHoward33 Well-Known Member

    You can't juice a stock price by gutting a company? Tell that to Eddie Lampert.
     
  10. JohnHammond

    JohnHammond Well-Known Member

    Lampert didn't gut anything, as the stock price is at a 12-year low. How do you gut a company with same-store sales falling for 10 consecutive quarters and double-digit declines for two consecutive quarters, and been in trouble for several years before Lampert took over?
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You are kind of clueless, so I know I am wasting my time by responding. But when you hit the google to quickly find a story about companies who have laid off workers, you helped make my point.

    I am trying to figure out how Amex has juiced its stock price, because it is at its lows for the year. Since that story came out the stock price is down probably about 15 percent. Which isn't surprising, because consumer spending has been weak. They weren't laying off workers to try to juice their stock price. They were making cuts across the board -- including management salary increases for what it is worth -- because they haven't been making as much money as they used to. That is how struggling companies respond. It had nothing to do with a CEO thinking like a 3rd grader that if they make cuts it will somehow magically translate to a higher stock price. That announcement certainly didn't juice their stock price. The stock price has been struggling. And that announcement actually brought continued focus on the dropoff in earnings.

    Halliburton and Baker Hughes? The stock prices are way off their highs in the last year, as someone suggested because the price of oil has cratered. Announcing layoffs didn't juice their stock prices -- their stock prices are DOWN since then. Where was the bounce? You asked, "Do you think Baker and Halli will turn profits next year?" 1) I can tell you that they won't be as profitable this year as last and the expectations of their profits have decreased as the year has gone along. And 2) We weren't talking about companies that manage not to lose money (why all companies are in business). You suggested that they did layoffs to juice their stock price. Which is ridiculous. In their case, their stock prices are down, not up. Even if you are desperate to find a company that has a higher stock price after layoffs, and without looking at everything related to the company try to make a false correlation, those are NOT the compaines.

    They even got eBay into the story, as if you were trying to make my point, because it's the poster child for what I tried to explain in my post. It has been on a massive stock buyback binge -- borrowing money cheaply (thank you Fed!) and using it to buy back stock. It started buying back stock in 2012 (several billion dollars worth) and right around the time that story you googled up came out they announced $5 billion more in stock buybacks -- which is a massive program. THAT is what can juice a stock price, because it is of tangible benefit to investors in the stock. It's also BS financial engineering that will have no lasting impact and will hurt companies in the long run, but that is another story. eBay has a business model that is creating slowing growth. The point is, though, that a company laying off workers doesn't do anything tangible for investors, other than signal struggles with the business model.

    Lastly, someone else brought up Eddie Lampert. They must not have read my post. I said the one exception I could think of where gutting a company might help a stock price (temporarily) is when the company has gotten absolutely slaughtered and it is hanging on for dear life. By then, the stock price has usually already cratered (due for a bounce anyhow, as vulture investors try to find value) and they are selling a turnaround story. That is exactly the case of Sears. It is a lost cause. For what it is worth, the endless announcements of how they are gutting the company, closing stores, laying off people, etc. have not exactly juiced the stock price. They held off a collapse in the stock price last year with the turnaround talk, but ultimately, no one who invested in Sears has done well -- yet at least. The stock price is at multiyear lows right now and is down something like 35, 40 percent on the year.
     
  12. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Jesus, Ragu.

    You would post 10,000 words at 8 a.m. that the sun didn't rise at 7:30 a.m.

    The fucking story, written by Time, point blank shows major companies cutting jobs because not enough profit was made.
     
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