This Makes Me Ill

You may have gotten water boarded so it worked out for the best

 

And this has what to do with the response to 9/11? Oh, that's right -- nothing. Afghanistan was not an attempt "to win the hearts and minds of psychos you are fighting by being nice to them." Nor was Iraq. You know this.

It seems like you're making a thinly veiled critique ("shake hands and kiss babies") of our counterinsurgency strategy, which DOES rely on developing relationships and trust among the locals. But the point of counterinsurgency is to win local support against "the psychos you are fighting," and to prevent turning more potential friends into foes.

And, lest you lambaste this concept as touchy-feely PC bullshit, please note that Gen. Petraeus was one of the few U.S. commanders who understood the importance of counterinsurgency, who knew what history could tell us about it (Iraq is the merely new Algeria). It's no coincidence that Petraeus is having more military success than past generals in Iraq. The ham-fisted, fire-and-brimstone approach that you apparently favor was employed for several years there; it only made things worse. You don't fight a counterinsurgency the way you'd fight Nazi Germany; firebombing and laying waste to Kirkuk or Falluja wouldn't have accomplished jack shit. I suspect you know this, too.

But if it makes you feel more like a man to say "Whatever means necessary!" regardless of the circumstances, go for it.

 

Agreed Boomer. He could also read about how Caesar managed to become one of the greatest conquerors in the history of the world.

Spoiler: It wasn't by brute force.

 

Reg: All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

Attendee: Brought peace?

Reg: Oh, peace - shut up!

Reg: There is not one of us who would not gladly suffer death to rid this country of the Romans once and for all.

Dissenter: Uh, well, one.

Reg: Oh, yeah, yeah, there's one. But otherwise, we're solid.

 

http://www.johntreed.com/torture.html

I particularly like this answer to the "What if it saves lives" argument:

"I am at a loss to understand why this argument is all of a sudden persuasive after not being so for the entire previous portion of our history. How many lives might have been saved if we had tortured every German we ever got our hands on during the two World Wars?

What is the mathematical rule? Can we torture 50 million Iraqis if it might save the lives of 50,000,001 Americans? Can we torture 20 Taliban if it might save the life of one U.S. general or three U.S. captains?"

 

He had some good ideas but he went too far?

 

Captains are worth saving. Generals? Not so much.

 

"Who's the enemy?" is the question on the floor.

Feel free to take your time, before answering.

I'm not being cute. Until the size and scope of the so-called enemy is precisely identified, blabbing is worthless. The current administration did a Grade F job in answering this question, to the sorrow of all.

 

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002.

 

And, as always when you trot out the old quotes, so what?

 

We've only responded to this, at least six times.

We don't go back to Square One on this stuff. Asked and answered . . .
Congress really isn't used to being misled/bullshitted on reasons for war by the executive . . . there have been occasions (you could bring up Spanish-American, and I wouldn't argue), but it's not a U. S. tradition . . .
and by the grace of God, it won't be, again, after we rid ourselves of the lice/douchebags currently associated with the present executive.