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This bailout plan is the worst thing we could have done

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by The Big Ragu, Sep 28, 2008.

  1. hockeybeat

    hockeybeat Guest

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  2. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

    Good words, Ragu. Bailout sucks. And probably won't work.

    Hondo, you're wrong as usual. Nobody "forced" lenders to make loans to unqualified people as adjustable-rate mortgages. They did it because they wanted to and because Sen. Gramm and the GOP executive branch made it possible. See also: Gramm's legislation preventing regulation of credit-default swaps; Gramm's legislation deregulating Glass-Steagall's limitations on bank ownership of other financial companies; executive branch actions in 2003 preventing state governments from enforcing their own predatory-lending and consumer-protection laws against national banks, freeing banks and mortgage companies to do whatever the hell they wanted.

    Your party put us here. Stop trying to put the blame off on anybody else. As far as I'm concerned, your party can pay the piper.
     
  3. Pancamo

    Pancamo Active Member

    Can anyone answer one question about the bailout. A lot of the MBS securities were layered with various degrees of paper. Can the banks strip out the good paper and sell only the crap to government?
     
  4. Jesus christ can we drop the "blame the Dems, blame the GOP'ers" here?
    How the hell one party - and one party alone - is responsible for this mess is beyond my scope of comprehension.

    Last time I checked both sides were working on approving a bailout plan.

    God I fucking hate party politics.
     
  5. Magic In The Night

    Magic In The Night Active Member

    I seem to remember President Dumbass liked getting out on the stump in 2004 and shouting that "home ownership in America" had never been as high a percentage as it is now.
     
  6. deskslave

    deskslave Active Member

    What pisses me off is that I didn't buy a house I couldn't afford, and I didn't get into an untenable loan, and I'm paying the piper too. Not just in the $700B bailout; call it "taxpayer money" all you want -- until my taxes increase, and I don't think they're going to, it really doesn't cost me anything more. I'm paying for it in higher grocery costs, higher gas costs, all these price increases that have been part of the fallout.

    So the idea that you have to let those who made the bad decisions suffer for them is fair enough, but the economy doesn't operate in a series of vacuums (or tubes). One things begets another begets another. I'm paying for other people's mistakes, with my own real money. I can see how the bailout is a bad idea, but I don't much care for this reality, either.
     
  7. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    That's the underlying problem. I know not to live outside my means. I know not to go crazy and have thousands of dollars of credit card debt. But oh those "poor" people who spent wily-nily and then have their hands out saying save me, nothing bad's gonna happen to them? What's the point of doing the right thing if it doesn't matter?
     
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Good luck to those people. This government plan to spend a massive amount of THEIR money is going to keep the economy in a quagmire for the next decade, adding that to their depressed home values (depressed off a market bubble). So now they can count on rising unemployment added to the decrease they have seen in their housing values. They should be more pissed than anyone. A bad economy that may have lasted 18 months is now sure to last a decade, and be worse than it would have been.

    Once again, your post is symptomatic of "everyone has to be winner." A lot of those people bought homes at the peak of the housing market. Nothing in the contract guaranteed that prices would continue to soar out of control. Anyone with their feet grounded in reality should have predicted that prices would correct. Your house value wasn't going to double in value every few years, which was what had been happening when they bought. Anyone who counted on that probably wasn't qualified for home ownership. No one forced any of those people who took loans they couldn't afford, with little down, to finance a house they couldn't afford, either. No one guaranteed that economic cycles would suddenly stop playing out and that we would see strong economic growth for eternity. The economy sees booms and busts. When it heats, it heats too much, and then corrects and when it corrects, it corrects too much and starts to heat. It is the way it always has been and always will. And no one told them to take ARMS with an escalation after three years that would put their payments into a place they were never going to be able to afford.

    Of course those people see the bailout as a positive. They are the same people who made bad decisions when buying a home, without thinking a few years ahead and saying, "How am I going to pay for this?" They are not thinking that today either.

    A depressed housing market that very likely would have been on the way to recovery in two years from now, and a bad economy that was surely going to see layoffs either way, versus a depression that might last a decade and depress the economy way worse than it would have, because of the long-term consequences of this horrible choking off of our financial markets. Those people on Staten Island, if they really think this bailout is a good idea, just don't get it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  9. hockeybeat

    hockeybeat Guest

    Um, I wrote that those people don't think the bailout is a good idea.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  10. PeteyPirate

    PeteyPirate Guest

    Whatever, dude, you're a Marxist.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    deskslave, you are paying in the form of that $700 billion of spending, but you are going to pay in a much worse way. This is going to have disastrous effects on our economy. The GOVERNMENT created this crisis. The financial markets would have gotten rid of the dead weight on their own and rewarded people smart enough to make good decisions. But when the government set that precedent with Bear Stearns, it set expectations, and then when they proclaimed a crisis, they spooked all faith in people who lend money and caused short-term loans to dry up with their stupid, self-serving, panicked rhetoric. No one was panicking 6 months ago and nothing is different today than it was then! They created a crisis and then get to act like they solved it.

    Now they will allay some of the fears and the financial markets will recover -- in the short term -- from a crisis THEY created. Beyond that, they just set the stage for economic malaise that will last 3 or 4 times longer than the recession we were going to have to suck up either way. That could be significantly longer, too, if they continue to do more stupid things like this.

    That's how you are going to pay. With high unemployment that will seemingly never come to an end and depending on external factors, possibly stagflation if enough of the emerging markets recover or we see some other kind of oil squeeze that drives inflation.

    This is just horrible and too many people don't get it.
     
  12. 21

    21 Well-Known Member

    Here's the current draft of the bill. Someone read and paraphrase for the rest of us.

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/pdf/index.htm
     
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