"They Bought the Pennant "

Glad others are starting to see through pube's bullshit.

 

Hefty, but not Yankee-sized. Nobody's is Yankee-sized.

And somebody brought them up as a team that compares with the Yanks in terms of buying up free agents. They also listed Bagwell as one of them,though he still hadn't established himself outside the minors when the Astros got him.

 

I 'll try typing slower for you.

When you keep your players with big deals, it is tantamount to signing free agents.

That you don't get this, and then lash out because you're beaten in the discussion, is cute in its juvenileness.

 

Finding, grooming and keeping your own talent isn't 'buying a pennant.'
I understand your point, although I'm not in favor of a baseball salary cap; however, I think you have to allow that finding and grooming the talent is a key part to the equation.

 

Buck, what happened to Montreal in the past decade?

I'll leave out Pedro and focus on these homegrown players.

Larry Walker, John Wetteland, Moises Alou, Marquis Grissom, Vladimir Guerrero, Javier Vazquez.... why do you think they were jettisoned?

Because they weren't located in greater L.A.

Of course paying big money for your own homegrowns when they hit free agency is part of paying for a pennant.

Thank you, though, for not having your head up your ass and acknowledging the logic.

 

As usual, you blindly believe the Expos were screwed because they couldn't afford to re-sign them once they reached or approached free agency.

But in almost every case, the Expos got the best years of these players' careers.

Acquiring Javier Vazquez, he of the million dollar arm and 10-cent head, really worked wonders for the Yankees in 2004. Is Johnny Damon's ALCS-clinching homer still flying?

John Wetteland had a great year for the Yankees in 1996 and provided the Rangers diminishing returns the following four seasons.

Vlad Guerrero has had three great seasons for the Angels. Watch him run the bases and in the outfield some time and tell me what kind of investment that will be over the next two or three years.

Marquis Grissom had one great year after he left Montreal (1996 w/the Braves). Other than that, he was a pretty good outfielder...but no superstar, as evidenced by the fact he played for five teams in his last 11 years.

Moises Alou didn't explode until he went to Houston at age 32. Would it be good business sense to give a long-term contract to someone who never exceeded 25 HRs in his 20s?

The one player you have a case for is Larry Walker, a raw talent who was still learning the game when he left the Expos and had a bunch of great years in Colorado. That said, I'd like to see what he would have done at sea level.

And you conveniently fail to note that the Expos kept a majority of these players for many years. Guerrero spent seven-plus years in Montreal. Jose Vidro has been there nonstop since 1997. Look at some of these other longtime homegrown players on the 2003 team: Guerrero...Vazquez...Vidro...Brian Schneider...Orlando Cabrera...Brad Wilkerson...as someone far smarter than me once pointed out, the Expos had their core together as long or longer than just about everyone in baseball.

When will you learn that, most of the time, a team best maximizes its investment during years one thru six for a big league player, not years six thru 12 or whatever? Do you think the A's regret being unable to keep Hudson and Mark Mulder? Or Jason Giambi? You're the one telling us Josh Beckett is on the downside of his career (which is absurd). So why shouldnt the Marlins trade him for a bushel of prospects right before he starts making crazy money? Look how much return the Marlins got on their Mike Lowell investment. You think they could have done a little better trading him before they signed him long-term?

Hmm, getting the most out of a player in his early years. The NFL does that, it's a bastion of all that is right in the world. MLB does it, it sucks.

You keep telling the rest of us we have no leg to stand on, yet you're the one throwing around insults and calling people stupid (really, I've got no problem with you calling me names, but you gotta be pretty low to dog Gold) whenever the argument isn't going your way. you're pretty much all alone in this, which means I guess a lot of us should change our screen names to Bob.

Again: Your ally in this is two-bit, a complete joke. Either agree to disagree (even though you're wrong) or stop wasting our time by discussing the sport you apparently hate.

 

Wow.

Impressive how you just shat on all of those players.

Well, well done.

I can't argue with you anymore when the paramaters shift to "well, they didn't do that great once they LEFT Montreal" and small-market teams are considered to benefit if they don't ever get a chance to see which player would react well to a big payday and which wouldn't.

That was impressive in its depth and religious-caliber zeal.

 

I just wish the strike would have never happened -- the Expos would have won a World Series.

 

Cliffs Notes version: You have been crushed by my reasoned, insult-free post and have nothing in response, so you'll just be sarcastic.

It's OK Columbo. I still like you and the fact you now have as many posts as Ty Cobb had hits (well, back when Pete Rose broke the record, anyway). It's OK.

And despite our differences, I'll still like you when you have as many posts as Dan Marino had passing yards in 1985.

 

I like you too.

But you do not have a pot of logic to support you against me with this.

Of all the great points of fact that I shove under your fingernails and you utterly ignore, this is my favorite:

------------------

Baseball champs past 10 years:
New York 4 times
Chicago 1
LA 1
Boston 1

Largest market to win NFL title past decade, Boston.

Smallest three markets to win baseball in past 10 (rank in parentheses):
Miami (17)
Miami (17)
Phoenix (14)

Three smallest to win the NFL
Green Bay (69)
Pittsburgh (24)
Baltimore (22)

 

There is no question that baseball heavily favors teams in large markets.
Two factors
Revenue from broadcasting media
Baseball's preference for large markets

 

From 1980-2002, when baseball's management went batty over "competitive balance,," 18 different NFL teams played in the Super Bowl. Over that same period, 20 different teams played in the World Series.
"Competitve balance" was a bargaining ploy, not a serious problem. Atlanta is a small-market, big-revenue team. The Dodgers are a big-market team but the Angels were a mediium-market team? How? In the past 10 years, Boston has gone from a medium-market team to a big-market team without ever leaving town. It is a huge mistake to argue "market forces" within a government-sanctioned, self-regulating monopoly.