The Whole Kindergarten Redshirt Thing

Went through this with our older daughter, whose birthday is in June. She was OK academically, but not really in terms of maturity. However, we weren't sure what to do, so we decided that we should at least give her the chance to see if she was ready, rather than assume that she wasn't. Worst-case scenario, she'd repeat kindergarten.

Well, that's what ended up happening. The day we told her that she was going back to kindergarten instead of first grade, she said: "Good, I can't read well enough to go to first grade." She also did AM Kindergarten the first time and PM the second, so it didn't feel exactly like doing the same thing over again. Different teacher too. Also, at our school, the kindergarteners are sort of segregated from the rest of the school, so it's not like she saw all her former classmates who she was now behind.

Ever since then, she's been well ahead of the rest of her class. Definitely one of the top kids academically. She doesn't seem to mind that she's older. I wonder if someday the other kids will wonder why she's older and start asking her if she "flunked a grade" but so far it's not an issue.

All that said, I don't regret sending her the first time, because she was really on the fence.

I think it's more of an issue with boys than girls, because they are less mature. My brother has September and October boys, and I'm sure neither of them will go when they first turn 5. That's probably the right choice.

My son, by the way, is a February baby, so we didn't really have a choice about him, but he is still at the shallow end of his class, even though we've been told that he's above national standards, because so many kids at his school were held back.

As for Buck's comment, I think you absolutely have to take into account what everyone else is doing. The teachers are going to move along at a pace for most of the kids, and if most of the kids are advanced, they are going to leave your kid in the dust. Like I said, my kid is above the theoretical national average for his grade level, but that means absolutely nothing because he's behind the kids in his school.

Anyway, hope all that helps.

 

Pardon the digression here, but he is going on the assumption that private schools are better, which often is not the case. It depends on where you are. If you are in the suburbs in many states, the public schools are probably better. They also often have higher standards for teachers.

Take New York as an example. Most private schools there do not require a state certification to teach. Their certification requirements are tough -- a Masters degree and passing comprehensive exams in education, general knowledge and content area.

The public schools do require the certification. So what you have is people teaching in private schools while they fulfill the requirements for state certification, then they move on to public school jobs as soon as possible. So the public schools end up with better teachers to go along with better resources.

This isn't true everywhere, obviously, but assuming private is better is a mistake.



Regarding the main topic, little OOP is a late-July birthday, but we never really considered holding her back. We felt she was ready to start school and it really has been good for her. She has her struggles, but she is right where she should be for a child going into second grade, perhaps a bit advanced in artistic pursuits.

Maybe the size thing helps. My little one is a big girl for her age and among the bigger kids in her class.

I like BB Bobcat's take on this, too. Sending the child and then repeating Kindergarden if necessary seems like a great idea.

 

It's all about mental maturity, which girls do fater than boys. Forget height, size and all that crap.

If you have the option, wait a year. It means another year of daycare, but would you want to be the first or last person driving a car when you are 16?

As for passing NCLB stuff, 93 percent of students are passing it now, so unless your kid is in the lowest, lowest tier, they should be passing. I would not worry about that unless you gave your kids Mountain Dew instead of books when they were three.

You want to have a kid do well in school? Every night, read to them for 15 minutes. Every night have them follow what you read in the book. You do that, your kid will do great.

 

The class size is about half that of the public schools and the kids in the school are all about the same socio-economicly. Private school teachers, in my experience, are more invovled with each of their students. Not just the ones at the top or the one's getting into trouble. Since the kids are similarly situated with a smaller population and social network, there's less excluding of kids and alot less mericless teasing. The percentage of parents fully enganed in their chiild's middle school and child's education in private schools is nearly 95% but there are enough parents of middle public school kids that have little school involvement and low expectations for their children that discipline is problem because of a lack of home reinforcement of civility and educational values.

This isn't to say public middle schools are the terrible, but private middle schools offer a greater chance for success.

 

I think you have to define what one considers 'struggling,' although I'm not asking for specifics about anybody's child.
Holding a child back because you hope the academic work will be easier for him/her is not the same as having a child who 'struggles' to handle the academic work.
Having to work at something is not the same as 'struggling.' Further, learning to actually apply oneself to one's school work is a valuable lesson to absorb as early as possible.

 

I am confused by the ages here, Luggy; are you talking about making the decision between starting your daughter at age 4 or 5, or at age 5 or 6? My suggestion would be not to do it at age 4; not that your child definitely won't be able to keep up, but kindergarten teachers will tell you that most of their difficulties come with the early starters. (If you're talking between 5 and 6, I guess it depends on your child, but the parents I've seen waiting are definitely of the "helicopter parent" variety.)

That's not true anymore. Jimmy Clausen was 19 years old as a high school senior. Not uncommon at all.

And I have to note this:

What a wonderful thing to say about someone's teenage daughter.

 

The people that teach in private schools cannot get hired in public schools.

My HR Director was going to send his kid to the best private academy in the area until he toured the school and saw all the teachers he did not hire when he was a public school administrator.

Private school kids do better because they come from better families. Apples don't fall from the tree. Schools just try to get the apples to roll away from the shitty trees.

 

teacher certification at the private school level is overrated. With no teacher's union and the ability to let teachers go who aren't successful, most private school teachers tend to better, and motivated. They also deal with a lot less behavioral problems and discipline. They teach more often, to less kids in better working enviorments. I am not talking about religious schools. I have no basis to talk about that. But non-boarding college prep private schools have quality teachers with great credentials. They also don't have to worry about teaching to some standardized test that controls salary and budgets

 

My birthday is in the fall and I started kindergarten when I was 4 years old. Wasn't really a big deal until middle school, when I was always a "year" younger than my friends. I started my senior year when I was 16 (hadn't even had my license for a year while some friends had been driving to school for two years) and graduated as a 17-year old in a class full of 18-year olds. Academically, I could hang with all of them. Maturity-wise, I feel I would have been better suited to redshirt and start when I was five.

My oldest son was born in October and I always told my wife that given the opportunity, I'd hold him out a year and let him start late. As it turns out, the rules for our school system changed when he was two years old and he wasn't able to start until he was five anyway. So he's about to be a 7-year old first grader and he's probably the biggest in his class and definitely one of the smartest (but also equally lazy). I think the extra year helped him, because in daycare he was always the young kid in class and seemed to always be the last to master preschool-type skills and move up to the next tier.

Best thing I can say is do what you feel is right for your child. Kids tend to adapt to environments so much quicker/easier than adults. I guess it's because they don't overthink things.

 

The age thing never occured to me growing up. I was one of the youngest in my class, but was always the biggest and had the best grades ( that is more of a testament to a crappy school than to me). However, when we sent our daughter to 3K, I was worried at first because her work was below the level of all the other kids. My wife pointed out not to worry because some of them were almost 8 months older than our daughter and it would even out.

And it has.

 

I wish I could do that, Buck, and believe me, that's how I try to parent. Sometimes I even strive for -- what if I were parenting this child 100 years ago.

But a friend of a friend is the vice principal at the local elementary school where my daughter will start kindergarten. She admits they are having to raise the academics in the classroom to "teach up" to all the hold-backs. The bottom line is that the average age of kindergarteners is WAY UP from 30 years ago. Especially where we live, in Hyper Parentville.

My daughter's birthday is so late (around Thanksgiving) that even if i held back, she would STILL enter kindergarten as a 5-year-old. I'm not even sure that's considered a hold back anymore. It isn't in private school.

It's the kids who are entering kindergarten at age 6 that are throwing everything off.

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TigerVols, as a 5'9" girl myself, which I was at age 14, being tall can be tough. But I think it's going to be tough no matter which year she goes. And somehow it seems 'cooler' to be a tall girl now than it did when I was growing up. Am I imagining that?

 

If someone said Lil 93 can go private for free, I would take it. To pay thousands for it is insane. Especially when her schools will have better demographics than many privates.