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The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof UPDATE: It happened again

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by LongTimeListener, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. RubberSoul1979

    RubberSoul1979 Active Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    These are the years the A's led the Giants in attendance, per baseball-almanac.com. Only when successive cheap-minded ownership groups led the A's did the Giants become the more popular team.

    1970: Oakland 9,609, SF 9,145
    1972: Oakland 11,888, SF 7,997
    1973: Oakland 12,355, SF 10,299
    1974: Oakland 10,441, SF 6,420
    1975: Oakland 13,278, SF 6,456
    1976: Oakland 9,697, SF 7,739
    1981: Oakland 23,928, SF 7,806
    1982: Oakland 21,426, SF 14,827
    1983: Oakland 15,987, SF 15,451
    1984: Oakland 16,707, SF 12,365
    1985: Oakland 16,477, SF 10,107
    1988: Oakland 28,239, SF 22,041
    1989: Oakland 32,929, SF 25,428
    1990: Oakland 35,805, SF 24,389
    1991: Oakland 33,500, SF 21,450
    1992: Oakland 30,792, SF 19,272
    1995: Oakland 16,310, SF 15,327

    Oh and remember everyone, LTL doesn't need facts to back up his arguments. If he says it, it must be true.
     
  2. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    The problem with the A's is that the Haas family was an anomaly. They actually lived in the area and gave a crud about the community. Finley was a carpet-bagger, Hoffman, Schott and Wolff each bought the team in hopes of using the team as leverage for a big real estate development.
     
  3. Double J

    Double J Active Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    1976: Oakland 9,697, SF 7,739

    Brutal, especially considering the A's had won their third straight World Series championship only two years earlier.

    1976 was also the year SF almost lost the Giants to Toronto.
     
  4. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    I am looking at this and wondering how it has anything to do with what I posted about what the Giants' claim is.

    I know this info. It has nothing to do with 2013 and beyond.
     
  5. RubberSoul1979

    RubberSoul1979 Active Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    My point is that for years, nobody gave a shit about the Giants. They almost moved to Toronto and later Florida.

    For them to be making claims of "territorial rights" -- when the A's proposed park in San Jose is a lot farther away from AT&T Park than their current stadium -- is total arrogance and hubris.
     
  6. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    As much as I have loved the Giants and SF; its damning to see how even in '89, the year the Giants finally got to the WS, the A's were dominating at the box office. Until 2000, you could say the Giants were playing in the sh*thole stadium by the water, where you were literally scared to drive through the streets to get to the ballpark; southern SF was not friendly.

    You can have your perception of Oakland, but having worked there for the past 24 years, its not nearly the decaying, crime-infested City you think; check out Uptown, Jack London Square, and look at the home prices near Claremont Country Club and the Oakland Hills (94619).
     
  7. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    It is not total arrogance and hubris. It is a legal recognition that they acquired from the A's. There is a dispute about when and why it was acquired -- the A's say it was solely to allow the Giants' attempt to build a ballpark in San Jose in 1992, but the Giants say it was an integral feature of the marketing and financing plan that allowed them to build AT&T. And that would be one of the main issues to resolve in the deadlock.

    But it isn't just arrogance and hubris. It's a legally binding agreement between the teams.

    You're also missing the point of why the Giants are so concerned in the first place. It isn't because of the relative proximity of the ballparks. It's because of how valuable Santa Clara County is to them. I found an old press release where they claimed 43 percent of their base resides in this disputed territory. I don't know if that's as a measure of total population or as a share of their actual ticket buyers, but clearly they have a great incentive to keep that territory.
     
  8. RubberSoul1979

    RubberSoul1979 Active Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    How can something with so much dispute and scrutiny surrounding it have so much influence? Something so difficult to define -- the origin of these "territorial rights," in this case -- shouldn't hold sway.
     
  9. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    And yet it does. That be the legality of it. The Giants own the rights to Santa Clara County, period.

    Selig can take it away, but he needs three-quarters of owners to do it. And there are at least a dozen owners who would have a great self-interest in not setting that precedent and letting another team move into their territory.
     
  10. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    Finley also nearly moved the A's a few times during that era, to Chicago, Denver, and if I remember right, Louisville.
     
  11. RubberSoul1979

    RubberSoul1979 Active Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    Well then, Selig's blue ribbon panel needs to come out and say something definitive on the subject. How long are they going to keep the A's in limbo? Until Montreal builds a park and lures them?
     
  12. HanSenSE

    HanSenSE Well-Known Member

    Re: The Oakland A's have solid (waste) proof that their stadium stinks

    Correct. Finley, in addition to trying to run the team from Chicago, also ran the organization as cheaply as possible. Jon Miller had a couple of good stories about it in his book. But it is an era that spawned MC Hammer and Mrs. Fields!

    The Haas family, in addition to being local (Haas Pavilion, for Pac-12 fans), marketed the heck out of the team, much like the Giants do today. The "BillyBall" campaign was groundbreaking for its time. And IIRC, the Hasses ceded the South Bay to the Giants during the Santa Clara stadium vote, which the Giants lost, but also recalled having those rights during the campaign to build what's now AT&T at the height of the dotcom boom.

    Hoffman wasn't much more than a caretaker government, while Wolff has made no bones about wanting to be out of Oakland. Wolff already parlayed his ownership of the MLS Earthquakes into a soccer-specific stadium in San Jose.
     
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