The 'Kobe Bryant Will Leave The LA Lakers' thread

The teamn that in my mind he should go to is the Magic cause that would give a player big man inside like Dweight Howard that could be the next big Center to play in the league the guy is a monster.

 

The only problem is, Orlando doesn't have much else to offer. They're not going to swap Dwight Howard for Kobe and the Lakers would be getting stiffed accepting anything else. But, I do agree, a Kobe-Howard-Nelson trio would do some big-time damage in the East.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/19/sports/basketball/19bryant.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&ref=sports&pagewanted=print

The NYT's Howard Beck believes that the amateur-shot video of a clearly agitated and frazzled Kobe "could be damaging."

One would imagine that this latest, publicly-aired undressing of Lakers' management will only serve to further widen what is looking increasingly like an irreparable wedge between the reigning All-Star MVP and the storied franchise.

 

Another interesting tidbit from Beck's column:

The video’s owners claim that a Lakers fan offered to buy the video to keep it private but that they declined.

Clearly someone believes - unlike some posters here at SJ - that the video will be deemed newsworthy (I almost feel silly having to make this point, as the article I'm citing, about the video, is from the NYT) and has marked potential to further diminish Kobe's oft-stained reputation.

It is good to see Jackson countering Team Kobe's attempt to lessen his trade value (and thus, set himself up better for his new team's chances) by proclaiming his belief that Kobe will return. Jackson is certainly no stranger to using the media to achieve his own ends, be it calling out a player or trying to get the refs to make more favorable calls.

The last thing Phil Jackson wants is to be subject to a final Kobe power-play, one which would make Jackson's coaching job next year more difficult if the Lakers are forced into a weaker and weaker position when and if Kobe is dealt.

I believe Jackson knows Kobe will be gone and Jackson is now fully engaged in making sure the losses his squad could suffer vis-a-vis a poorly-leveraged Kobe trade are minimized.

 

Rok, a serious question...

Why would the Lakers trade Kobe unless the deal makes the team better?

I just keep reading a lot of "Oh, this is getting worse, the Lakers have no choice..." Of course the Lakers have a choice. If they aren't getting a return that improves the team, they don't trade him. What's he going to do, sit out? If I'm Kupchak and I don't like the offers, Kobe can sit out for the rest of his career if he wants. And we both know Kobe won't do that.

Again, the Bulls would have to offer so much in return that the roster they would be left with would be inferior to the supporting cast he has now.

Kobe is not forcing the Lakers into a weaker position. He has no leverage. He is under contract. The Lakers' position is entirely of their own choosing. The fact that he badmouthed the team on some video means absolutely nothing.

 

I saw that you asked this question yesterday, PC. Sorry I didn't respond. Just give me a couple hours on this one, if you don't mind. I'm a bit tapped-out, time-wise, from posting in JDV's thread in Anything Goes and actually need to be productive right now.

 

Ok, let me try to give this a shot, PC:


1. "Why would the Lakers trade Kobe unless the deal makes the team better?"

It's a relative question, you know what I mean? That is, if your superstar decides to tank on you or take extra time out for small injuries, which is better, having him on your team or getting .60 on the dollar for guys who will actually give 100%? Kobe has shown in his past that he is more than capable of 'quitting' on the Lakers. If I were Buss, etc., I would be taking his trade wishes very seriously. Many Lakers fans adore Kobe, and if he decides to turn them against Buss, as he has begun to do and one could see him dramatically escalating if he doesn't get his way now, Buss' rep and bottom line could seriously suffer. And Buss knows that.


2. "I just keep reading a lot of "Oh, this is getting worse, the Lakers have no choice..." Of course the Lakers have a choice. If they aren't getting a return that improves the team, they don't trade him. What's he going to do, sit out? If I'm Kupchak and I don't like the offers, Kobe can sit out for the rest of his career if he wants. And we both know Kobe won't do that."

See #1. Kobe has a ton of leverage here, and he's using it. Not b/c he wants to make the team better, but b/c he wants out. That is why you are consistently hearing Bucher, etc repeat the same mantra. It is why Kobe continues to repost/redate his last entry on his website. Basically, it's 'Get me out or I will really try to destroy this organization.'

Kobe can opt out in what, 2 years? You're going to lose him anyway, it would seem. He wants out. Buss will likely make the best choice from a range of bad options.


3. "Again, the Bulls would have to offer so much in return that the roster they would be left with would be inferior to the supporting cast he has now."

This is crucial, as it, IMO, explains much of the gamesmanship which is now going on, such as the Phil Jackson remarks referenced by Big Game.

It is my contention now that we have passed the 'decision phase' of this matter and are now in the 'negotiation phase.' Similar to what you saw in the Wolfowitz/World Bank endgame. At some point, Wolfie knew he had to resign, so then its about getting the best terms possible.

Kobe, IMO, is actively trying to help his own and the Bulls' cause here, by deliberately driving down his market value so that the Bulls get as much of a lopsided deal as they can. That helps him, Kobe, to have a better chance at getting back to an winning a title. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Kobe knew about/was very 'ok' with this video of him cussing out the Lakers being made public - it helps his cause. Of course he can't say that, or he takes a PR hit. Which is why, I believe, he 'changed his mind' about wanting to be traded between radio interviews 2 weeks ago. Someone on Team Kobe said "Shut up."

Think about this stuff in Machiavellian terms. There is a lot of deception going on, on all sides. Like I posted, I firmly believe Jackson knows Kobe is gone but is saying what he is saying now b/c he doesn't want to coach a ridiculously-lopsided cast of players as a result of Kobe getting dealt. That hurts his self interest. So Jackson is trying to inflate Kobe's value/the Lakers' leverage by saying what he's saying. Every time anybody opens his mouth in this saga, they have an agenda. So just try to think, "What is being accomplished by this being said, and who benefits?" Why is Kobe telling Bucher to air certain things? Why is Jackson saying what he's saying now, etc.


4. "Kobe is not forcing the Lakers into a weaker position. He has no leverage. He is under contract. The Lakers' position is entirely of their own choosing. The fact that he badmouthed the team on some video means absolutely nothing."

Kobe has incredible leverage, starting with his no-trade clause and his huge fandom, both league-wide and esp. in LA. Being under contract does not prevent suddenly chronic injuries from appearing, or becoming miraculously 'team-oriented' in the second halves of blowout playoff series-clinching losses. There is a lot Kobe can do which will still keep him paid but will crush the Lakers.

The Lakers did not choose this, unless you are saying that 'it's their fault with their incompetence.' I understand that perspective, but I also add "Um, Kobe helped them be in the tight spot of having to move Shaq," etc. Kobe isn't wholly to blame, but he's far from blameless, either.

The video absolutely hurts the Lakers' leverage for a trade, yes. Just as I believe Beck mentioned. To use slang, Kobe is publicly 'clowning' the Lakers' front office in the video, as well as teammates. That is why if it one day comes out that Kobe was in on the filming/releasing/... of the video, I won't be surprised - it serves his interests, which as I mentioned in #3, is a good way to begin to trace how things often end up happening.

Let me use another example. Say a company has a star sales rep. The guy ends up feeling he's being underpaid and underappreciated, and he wants out of his contract so he can move on to greener pastures. He starts leaking company gossip, or begins to badmouth the company in public appearances. But he does it within the letter of his contract. And his contract is guaranteed. Next he appears on a YouTube where he was surreptitiously videotaped blasting the company president, etc. Yet he gets legal backing saying he can't be fired for this b/c the video was made without his consent, so it can't be used against him, or some such maneuver.

At some point if you are on the board of that company, you just decide you need to cut your losses and get rid of the guy. And you think, we might as well do it now while the hiring market is ok. We're not going to get someone(s) as good as he is, but their is a HUGE addition by subtraction element here. If we keep him on, he is going to continue to find 'non-firable' ways of hurting the company. So you let him go, and swallow his contract. Think Keyshawn Johnson, only here you get something for Kobe.


This is the position the Lakers are being put in by Kobe. It's very clear. The only thing restraining his full-out vitriol is that he doesn't want to hurt his own rep and look like a traitor to the Lakers. That's why he changed his tune after the Stephen A. Smith show, and now he seems like he's at the 'just f*ck it' part where he doesn't care about anything but getting off the team.

The Lakers will get rid of him, and they should. Yes, Buss could play 'hardball' with Kobe, but what's to gain? Buss won titles before Kobe and I'm sure he feels confident he can win them without him, too. And without he and his family taking more shots in the press.

 

My only problem with RokSki is, not his opinion (it's a friggin message board, everyone's entitled to one) it's that he won't admit he despises Bryant and can't see straight when it comes to anything to do with him. If only he admitted it, I think a lot more people would be willing to listen to his point of view.
Rok is definitely passionate in his beliefs and I respect him for that. I just wish he'd admit to what many of us already know.

 

I utterly despise Kobe Bryant, and I have said so repeatedly here. That's not a secret. Just go and look at my post history on this and on my rokski SJ profiles.

Now, I don't dislike him with some crazed eye. I dislike him for a number of reasons, some of which include:

1. I think he's a rapist

2. I think he's vastly over-rated as a TEAM basketball player

3. I am tired of Ric Bucher-esque hagiographical stories about him (including
from people I respect, such as Whitlock and Jemele Hill)

4. I am tired of him being held up as some rallying point by many who would
identify themselves as part of the hip-hop crowd. This guy is whiter than
Christian Laetner. He was raised in Italy, for goodness sakes

5. I am disturbed and outraged that anyone can't see Kobe for what he is:
He has very serious social issues. That's ok, so does Ricky Williams.
But Ricky Williams knows it. PLEASE go and seek out the Newsweek
piece from several years ago on Bryant in the wake of Colorado. It
discusses Kobe's social difficulties and even said his circle of handlers/
posse tried to help him with it. I am not manufacturing this, there is a
problem there.

This is but a sample of my issues with Kobe and Kobe's devout followers. There is a ton of sociological study which could be done based on those who like (and dislike) Kobe. There are reasons why those who so stridently defend him do so. Ever since I came to SJ, I have declared in numerous posts that part of what I wanted to accomplish here was to serve as a counterbalance to the Scoops and Buchers of the world. That is why I am on Kobe so much. Seriously, I feel bad for the guy. But it's one thing to feel bad for him and another to allow his PR machine to perpetuate a litany of falsehoods. That's my angle.

Big Game, thanks for the indirect props. I appreciate them, and I also appreciate your passion. I don't hold grudges, and I respect yours and everyone else's opinion. We don't have to agree. I am, sincerely, trying to seriously pay attention and interpret what I'm seeing from the various outlets on the Kobe story. Part of what my job entails is to synthesize disparate data and compile it into an organizable whole. As such applies to the Kobe situation, the new video applies, everything applies. I'm doing my best, with my particular viewpoint, to convey what I see.

 

Rok's post edited for brevity: I don't like him. I think he's a selfish punk in many aspects of his life.

 

Thanks, Slappy. And I'd just add, I think he is pathologically troubled. It's like he has mild autism or something. And I'm serious.

 

Rok, I think we differ on a few basic elements here.

See, I just don't think this exists -- in fact, I think you have the two reversed. The Lakers have no need to make a decision until they figure out what they can get for Kobe.

Without question, I'll take the superstar -- because at some point he's going to realize that all he is doing is destroying his career. I don't believe for a second that Kobe is going to tank the next two seasons and neither do the Lakers. If you're going to get 60 cents on the dollar you are better off waiting him out.

I'll repeat: Kobe has no leverage. No trade clause? Not a big deal when the team doesn't want to trade him. His leverage essentially boils down to "I'm gonna hold my breath..."

And don't think for a second the Laker fans are going to side with Kobe against Buss and the team. Buss was there for Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Cooper, Shaq and Kobe, and the championships that came with them. The fans aren't going to forget all of that because Kobe has a snit.

And let me clarify my suggesting that the Lakers' position is whatever they choose it to be. I'm not saying they've dug this hole themselves -- I'm saying they can choose whichever path they wish to take, and they need not be forced into anything. Kobe has no power to force a trade here. They can trade him, they can keep him and try to improve the team, or they can keep him and keep the same band of losers they had last season. It's entirely their call.

And really, some video of Kobe mouthing off about the Lakers' management is not going to prompt the team to trade him for a bunch of stiffs. They handled rape allegations; I think they can handle Kobe whining in a store.