The Jones on Ebert

21 · Feb 20, 2010

WaylonJennings said:

The Big Ragu said:

I just reread the piece because I had enjoyed it so much. Nothing really major to add. I love long-form magazine writing. I really love long-form magazine writing that is carried by some killer reporting and not thousands of flowery words trying to cover up for a lack of detail. You don't have to know Jones or his work to read that piece and be able to tell even just a few hundred words in that a tremendous amount of observation and work went into reporting that story. I also don't know how anyone who has remotely done any kind of writing in their life can't take a step back and think about what it must have been like to write that. It's one thing to walk away after a few days of observing and interviewing with whatever mishmash of notes he had. It's another to then face the daunting task of making something out of it. This is where you either have the talent or you don't. Few do.
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I just have never agreed with this assertion. I think that it is 95 percent craft, I really do, and 5 percent "talent." You can't necessarily learn to structure sentences like F. Scott Fitzgerald, but I definitely think you can learn to tell a story if you want to put in the work.
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Waylon--if someone wants to put in the kind of work you're talking about--which includes having the vision to make unique observations, know who to interview, what to ask, how to craft the details and observations into this kind of story--then that writer probably has the talent Ragu is talking about.

The two aren't separate entities.

WaylonJennings · Feb 20, 2010

The Big Ragu said:

WaylonJennings said:

The Big Ragu said:

I just reread the piece because I had enjoyed it so much. Nothing really major to add. I love long-form magazine writing. I really love long-form magazine writing that is carried by some killer reporting and not thousands of flowery words trying to cover up for a lack of detail. You don't have to know Jones or his work to read that piece and be able to tell even just a few hundred words in that a tremendous amount of observation and work went into reporting that story. I also don't know how anyone who has remotely done any kind of writing in their life can't take a step back and think about what it must have been like to write that. It's one thing to walk away after a few days of observing and interviewing with whatever mishmash of notes he had. It's another to then face the daunting task of making something out of it. This is where you either have the talent or you don't. Few do.
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I just have never agreed with this assertion. I think that it is 95 percent craft, I really do, and 5 percent "talent." You can't necessarily learn to structure sentences like F. Scott Fitzgerald, but I definitely think you can learn to tell a story if you want to put in the work.
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I put plenty of work into it at one point in my life. And yeah, I got better. I was always a pretty good reporter. And just a competent writer. My writing got 1,000 times better over time. But I only got so good. No matter how much I wanted to be John McPhee, it wasn't going to ever happen. I hope by your response you didn't think I downplay the work that has to have gone into a piece like that. Without having been there, I know that Jones had to have spent several days with a lot of access, and he had to be totally on the whole time. He had to observe. He had to record. He had to scribble down even the most minute details of what was going on around him. He had to have been fretting how the thing was going to come together from the moment he showed up. I have no doubt he worked his ass off, before and after he sat down to write. But to be able to do that reporting, and then be able to take a giant jigsaw puzzle of notes and observations and create a perfect picture from it is a talent that few people have, in my opinion. In my experience, some people are good at the reporting, some can turn a phrase really well, some know how to use sentence structure to make something easier to read. But it takes something I think you have or don't have (that of course has to be honed; i.e. -- the craft) to be able to take on a task as monumental as I think that one was and hit out of the park. The reporting alone (and capturing the level of detail he did--the observation, the note taking, the mental notes) would have been beyond the abilities of most people. Then taking an overwhelming amount of info and mentally arranging it? That part freezes up some really talented writers. And the ability to know when to lay on the writing and when to let the story do the heavy lifting, well, that is just an innate sense. Maybe you are right about that 5 percent. But in my opinion, if you are, that 5 percent counts for a whole lot.
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Yep, the 5 percent is probably quite important. It's lonely at the top. In other professions, that 5 percent probably separates the garden variety biological science lecturer at an Ivy League school from the guy who comes up with a cancer breakthrough.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a lot of writers pecking away probably don't realize just how close they could get to that Ebert piece, or at least how much better their own daily work could get. They write themselves off far too quickly.

I guess it seems like I'm dismissing Jones' work as easy. I'm absolutely not. I just feel like we're all capable of a lot more than we realize.

Ben_Hecht · Feb 20, 2010

Afflict the comfortable, comfort the afflicted.

That's the game, unless you're writing for a house organ or you're in PR.

Moderator1 · Feb 20, 2010

I may take the locks off this later, we'll see. It keeps veering into areas it doesn't need to veer into (other boards, other writers), which is too bad because THE TOPIC itself is plenty good.
Don't PM me, don't try to start another one. Let it chill for a while. IF I do open it up, try to stay on course please.

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The Jones on Ebert

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The Jones on Ebert

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