The French are striking again... But they do have socialized health care

Great point.

Of course, I have never physically sat next to you while you were at your computer posting to this board. Yet I still somehow feel qualified to say that 99 out of every 100 times you post something it lacks any substance.

The disappointing thing is that if you are going to go for snark without substance every time you post, you should at least display some wit--you know, be amusing somehow. But this is another characteristic you lack, unfortunately. Still, I'm sure you're a swell guy in some way.

 

Another interesting passage from one of those articles:

But some Canadians will boast about how they have figured out how to magically make things less costly and talk about how gouged Americans are. I suppose we can keep the cost of a medical education the same, but not pay our doctors and give them the facilities they need either (so they either avoid med school altogether or leave to practice elsewhere where people value their training).

 

I know few other people care about this thread... But what the hell:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7108332.stm

It gets back to what I've said and been challenged on. They have destroyed their economy with their government-run programs. They are paying a heavy price for how much more enlightened they are than us regarding things like government-run health care programs. What good is it when economic growth is stagnant because you have run yourself into massive debt and large numbers of people are unemployed?

 

You either misread or completely missed the point. The point was that Canada hasn't figured out something we haven't, and in fact has it worse.

In any case, the typical experience in a U.S. emergency room in a big city sucks -- it's the nature of an emergency room. They are running triage. We still don't have the crisis our neighbors to the north do, due to doctor shortages and the lack of resources their overtaxed system has allocated for emergency care. Being rushed to an emergency room is going to be a shitty experience anywhere. You are much luckier if you experience it in New York (and there are some really shitty hospitals in NY) than you are in Toronto, though. That's just a fact. The best I can suggest is that you google up the copious horror stories about emergency room care in Canadian cities, which has been in crisis mode for years.

If you really want to make an argument about this, the argument should be about cost. You will likely fare better in terms of wait time and care in an American emergency room. It's the expensive bill that most people have complaints about (not that it is free in Canada to get neglected and possibly die in an emergency room -- they pay taxes for their government-run system).

 

That's pretty fair, actually. When I read that millions of Canadians can't find a family doctor because of the shortage of health care professionals your system has brought on, is it true? When I read that one in nine Canadian trained doctors comes to practice in the U.S., where they can actually pay off their student loans, is it true? What about the even more disturbing evidence that bright, young Canadians aren't even bothering to consider medical school, instead choosing educational opportunities that will lead to more lucrative careers? What about the stories about overcrowding and lack of facilities in emergency rooms, and the government itself deeming the situation unacceptable--with the problem having dragged on for years anyhow? Is it true that on average, a Canadian pays about 50 percent of his wages in taxes, and of that, roughly 40 percent goes to pay for your health care system, so it isn't "free" the way some people (not you, necessarily) characterize it? Even with that high rate of taxation, is it true that you have lived in an unrealistic world for years, in which your system operated at a huge debt, so you were borrowing and taking on debt in order to get more than you were actually willing to pay for? And if I am right about that, isn't it kind of fair to say that you were living in LaLaLand, not reality, until fairly recently? Is it true that your debt has made that rate of borrowing no longer possible (your credit card is effectively maxed out), and as health care costs have kept rising, your response has been to spend less through reduction of services, closing facilities, hiring fewer health professionals and forgoing new (typically expensive) technologies? Is it true that as services have been reduced (rationing has become a necessity), dissatisfaction has risen? Is it true that that is a problem (rising health care costs) that is not going away, so you face the choice of even higher taxes (is that possible?) or cutting more services, and according to polls nationwide, neither is acceptable? Is it true that now that you have to be more realistic--you can't keep running up debt to get more than you are willing to pay for--you face the problem of living up to the promise of universality, because it is impossible and no one seems to have a solution for how to pay for it?

I know you prefer your system to ours. I accept that. Americans may decide it is better and try to emulate it because everyone (including me) loves the idea of universal health care. But in the interest of making a fair evaluation of what we will be buying into when people say you are doing it better (and perhaps you are)... When I read these stories is there any truth to what I am reading (the things above) or is it fallacious? I guess the two big questions, if you don't want to address thousands of little questions, are, 1) Has Canada figured out how to pay for that dream? 2) And if you answered yes, why have I read that your system basically ran up huge amounts of debt to pay for the unrealistic for years and now is facing a crisis because you can't do that anymore?