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"The Force Awakens" (with SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Dick Whitman, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    That's fair enough. I was thinking if they kept Han in the next movie, they'd kill him off early. Or they could do it like they did at the end of the first, but do it where he dies either trying to save Ren after his battle with Rey or at the hands of Ren, but not have it be in front of everyone. Ren kills him then approaches Rey, tells her that the true way is to learn from him and that her friends will let her down and dumps Han's body on the ground in front of her. They then battle, same outcome. She cries over it (instead of over Finn's body) as Ren escapes. Finn pulls her away because the place is about to explode and you go on as it was.

    I just didn't need Obi-Wan er Solo getting killed by Vader er Ren while Luke, Han and Chewie er (you get the point) look on followed by emotional blaster firing.
  2. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    I kind of like how they're flipping the Jedi dynamic on its head. In the original trilogy and the prequels, you had good guys trying to resist the call of the dark side and embrace the light. Now, with Ren, we have someone who is quite happy to be a Sith who must battle against his urge to turn good. Han's death is a huge moment in Ren's journey along that path.
    Snoke had told Ren it would be his ultimate test, and then at the moment of truth Ren says, "I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it. Will you help me?"
    I think we're supposed to think Ren is talking about turning back toward the light, doing what we think is the right thing, and coming home to Han and Leia to be a family again. In reality, he's saying he needs to kill Han to further his turn to the dark side but doesn't know if he can do it because it is still his father. Han dying and "allowing" Ren to kill him is why he said "Thank you."
    BDC99 likes this.
  3. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    I figured Han would die near or at the end of Ep. 7, but in a real blaze-of-glory explosion where he took out some huge planet-destroying menace and saved all the good guys in the process, literally as the closing scene of the movie.

    It's kind of comparable to Kirk's death in ST: Generations -- it's a "heroic" death but not nearly as heroic as everyone expected it to be.
  4. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    I like Kylo Ren as a villain. He seems much more human than Vader. A kid who is sick or into bad stuff that you just can't save. Also really want to see him get his ass kicked now.

    Poe is a great character as well. The actor was a real dick in Ex Machine but likable here.
  5. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Yup. I thought that was a play on Vader's turn at the end of Return of the Jedi. We saw his grandfather turn back to the light at the moment of truth, but Ben/Ren does the opposite. It was definitely telegraphed, but they did it well.

    I enjoyed it. Not more than the originals, but certainly more than the prequels. I just got back in from seeing it an hour ago, so I'm still processing. Not ready to rank it yet. I doubt it could ever take the same place as the original in my mind because that was the first movie I even saw in the theater. No movie can take that place.

    I do agree with those who said they do too much telling rather than showing. I want to see more of what happened in those 30 years. Maybe one of the spin-offs?

    I certainly don't buy into Ren and Rey being twins. Rey was very young when she was left on Jakku (somebody else pointed that out, too) and Ren was old enough to do some real damage when he betrayed Luke and the New Jedi Order.
  6. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's really possible to determine where it "ranks" until the entire trilogy unfolds.
  7. cyclingwriter2

    cyclingwriter2 Well-Known Member

    Looking back, I wish ren killed han and then whispered. ."you shot first" in his ear.
  8. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    I disagree. They are still individual movies. Of course, the rankings can change with the movies to come, but that doesn't mean you can't make a ranking right now.

    The real issue in ranking them for those of us who saw the originals in the theater is that they came out at such different points in our lives. Also, I've lost count of how many times I have watched the original trilogy, including this past week with my daughter (who had only watched them once, when she was very little). I'm sure my opinion of The Force Awakens will change once I see it again.

    One thing I don't get is why they send only Rey and Chewbacca after Luke at the end. Why not at least Leia? Hell, why not some back-up in case the First Order is also on his trail?
  9. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I assume Leia is too vital to running the show. It'd be like sending Eisenhower to find Private Ryan.
  10. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Not really. Luke is a lot more important to the resistance than Private Ryan. The movie established that everybody had been looking for Luke. Poe Dameron certainly knew. He said the information possibly leading to finding Luke Skywalker gave them a chance. When they sent a fleet to retrieve BB-8, Leia went along.

    I get why Abrams did it that way. He wanted that moment with Rey and Luke at the end. It just doesn't make sense within the story.
  11. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    When did Chewbacca's Bowcaster turn into the most-powerful blaster in the galaxy? It never knocked Stormtroopers back 10 feet before. Chalk it up to 30 years of improvement on it?
  12. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    Assume the First Order is in a bit of disarray after losing one of their primary bases. I think they had some time to evacuate the place, unlike the Death Stars, but they're still going to need to regroup for a bit. As important as finding Luke is, there are other things that take priority at that moment.
    In the meantime, one fast ship traveling to an uncharted region of space probably stands a good chance of getting there undetected. Plus, if it turns out to be a snipe hunt, better to send two people relatively unimportant to the Resistance (from the standpoint of the war) instead of your leader.
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