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Teen Rap Feud, Gangs, and Murder in Chicago

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by YankeeFan, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. dreunc1542

    dreunc1542 Active Member

    I love that you "+1" this, but ignore his other post which argues against the article you posted.
     
  2. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    The 29 percent was the teachers' starting point for negotiations. The schools countered with 2 percent. They met with a neutral fact-finder, who basically split it down the middle with a 14.85 percent raise.

    Which, the arbitrator felt was more than fair, seeing that with the expanded school day, teachers were working an extra 19 percent.

    http://progressillinois.com/quick-hits/content/2012/07/16/ctu-fact-finder-recommends-major-raise-union-members

    And I see the Journal is parroting the usual trope of teachers only working a few hours a day for 170 days, which, I pointed out in my previous post, is a fallacy.
     
  3. Donny in his element

    Donny in his element Well-Known Member

    Having been a (non-union) English/journalism teacher, whose official duty hours were 7:30-3:00 (71/2 hours), I can tell you it was never that.

    As a year-round coach (meager stipend) and publication adviser (no stipend), my days could range from 5:45 a.m.-9 p.m. on a day that included two practices and a publication work night. That doesn't include the hours of grading and prep a week (often on weekends, along with athletic practices or contests), the phone calls and parent conferences, and the paperwork, all of which require off-duty hours.

    For many (I know not all), 9-10 hours is a daily necessity just to be a middling educator. And it's not a job in which you can get away with not being almost constantly engaged. Almost no downtime, even during your 25-minute lunch. And that was in a private-school setting. I know teachers in the publics faced challenges I couldn't imagine, for maybe slightly better pay and benefits.
     
  4. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Damn it, Donnie, you're spoiling the lazy-teacher narrative.
     
  5. Donny in his element

    Donny in his element Well-Known Member

    It's amazing to me how we've shifted to a War on Teachers in this Tea Party era. As if teachers are worthless leaches on society. It's everywhere, and it's dumbfounding. Teachers are expected to give more and more of themselves while facing layoffs, paycuts and lack of support from nearly every circle--including parents who don't want to bear any responsibility for their children. It's always the fault of the teacher.
     
  6. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    You "pointed it out" by citing a self reported survey that less than 100 people responded to:

    Try harder.
     
  7. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Why is it a "war on teachers" if you don't want to give the store away, and demand some accountability, and cost savings?
     
  8. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Where's the demand for accountability? All I see is that the district wants to use test scores to grade teacher performance. That isn't accountability. That's just propping up some useless metric that has been disavowed by, among many other people, the consultant who led the effort in the Bush Administration to implement testing.
     
  9. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    So, how do the teachers propose they be held accountable?

    If test scores aren't the answer, what it? There has to be some answer.
     
  10. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    That is the rub, granted. Are the teachers going for straight seniority? Or are they willing to submit to an evaluation system, which is subjective but no more subjective than those in any other line of work?
     
  11. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    And, I get that grading teachers based on test scores can be hard too.

    You don't want to compare apples (schools with resources) to oranges (schools without them).

    But, I compare it to a sales job. Each sales person is given his own goal, based on what his expected sales should be. One sales person may have lower expectations put on him, given his territory. But, he still has goals, and he's going to be graded based on his results.

    We've got to be able to evaluate teachers. And, if you don't use standardized tests, what do you use?
     
  12. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Fine, here's a survey of 10,000 teachers who say they work an average of 53 hours a week.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/survey-teachers-work-53-hours-per-week-on-average/2012/03/16/gIQAqGxYGS_blog.html

    And here's a link to two more surveys, one of them done by the Department of Labor, that show teachers work 1,913 and 1,932 hours a week respectively.

    http://www.jointhefuture.org/blog/355-teachers-work-the-same-number-of-hours-as-average-us-worker

    What do you have? A paper that only counts the hours teachers actually spend in class. It's ignorant, at best.
     
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