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Ted Simmons: HOF?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Eight-time All-Star
    9,685 career plate appearances
    248 HR
    .285/.348/.437 (.785 OPS)
    118 OPS+ (Fisk 117, Bench 126, Piazza 142, Carter 115)
    2,472 hits
    Peak (25-30) OPS+'s: 142-117-144-148-135-140
    3 top 10 MVP finishes
    WAR 50.1 (average HOF catcher 52.7)

    Hall of Fame Statistics (BR)
    Gray Ink: 95 (Average HOFer 144)
    Hall of Fame Monitor: Batting 124 (Average HOFer 100)
    Hall of Fame Standards: Batting 44 (Average HOFer 50)
  2. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    I'd put him in if I had a vote.
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    There are some guys - Harold Baines always seems like the perfect example to me - that got vote totals that seem very low considering their near-HOF numbers, but you understand why they got low vote totals because they are very clearly on the wrong side of the line, despite coming very close.

    But then you have this group of guys like Simmons, Dwight Evans, Bobby Grich, and Albert Belle, about whom there is a serious conversation to be had. And, yet, they were all off the ballot in 2-3 years, tops.

    It's maddening.
  4. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    Sportswriters, generally speaking, aren't very smart and they were even less inquisitive and more prone to group think and conventional wisdom back in the day. None of this surprises me.
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Pretty close for me. I probably wouldn't put him in, but you can certainly make a case for him if you feel strongly. I think a reason he isn't in is that he played in an era with Johnny Bench, Carlton Fisk and Gary Carter. And the line was between them. ... and him. I also think he was off the ballot way too soon. He deserved more consideration.
  6. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    I'd definitely vote for him. Unlike Baines, who was a consistent accumulator and never one of the best players in the game, Simmons was an elite player at his position. He didn't have the WS titles or the signature moments that Carter, Bench or Fisk had, and I think that's what hurt him and made him drop off the ballot so quickly. I'm guessing he gets in eventually.
  7. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Not only did he not have their postseason resume, he batted under .200 in his two postseasons. If the Brewers would have won it in '82 and he contributed in a big way, I wonder how much the narrative changes.
    CD Boogie likes this.
  8. novelist_wannabe

    novelist_wannabe Well-Known Member

    No. Eye test. (I keed, I keed ...)
  9. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    Without looking at his numbers, I remember being stunned that Belle fell off the ballot so quickly. He was an absolute monster (probably because of PED use) in his prime. He could wreck a game damn near by himself and was undoubtedly one of the most feared hitters in baseball during his career (probably because he seemed about as likely to murder an opponent on the field as he was to murder a hanging a slider). He batted for power and average, drove in 100+ runs every season, didn't strike out much - there's not much to dislike about the guy as an elite hitter. If Kirby Puckett could make it to the HOF after having his career cut short by injury, surely Belle deserved it.
    amraeder likes this.
  10. novelist_wannabe

    novelist_wannabe Well-Known Member

    Seriously, even without the sabermetrics he warrants a hard look. Only predominant catcher with more RBIs was Yogi Berra. TS is second in doubles and third in total bases.

    His biggest shortcoming is probably that his career mainly coincided with that of Johnny Bench, although with the notable exception of home runs their career numbers are similar.
  11. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    The list of voting travesties begins and ends with Dick Allen, but Belle and Simmons aren't all that far behind.

    What was Simmons' reputation defensively? Looks like he led the league in passed balls three times and threw out 34 percent of would-be base stealers (compared to 43 percent for Bench). In 15,092 1/3 innings, Simmons surrendered 691 passed balls or wild pitches (one every 22 innings), compared to 540 of them in 14,488 1/3 innings for Bench (one every 26 innings). Runners attempted to steal 1,799 times on Simmons compared to 1,079 times on Bench (again, in 600 less innings).
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    He probably wasn't quite as bad as his reputation -- which I don't think was that great. He had a decent enough arm, if I remember correctly. But he probably wasn't a great catcher.

    He played a lot of games at the position, and it is a difficult position to play well, so if he was too much of a liability he wouldn't have been out there. He had more than enough bat for a team to try to hide him at first base or in the outfield to get the bat in the line up.
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