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Teacher Opposed to Gay Marriage Could be Fired

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by sportbook, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    There is a line of Supreme Court cases about the First Amendment protections of public employees, including teachers, government workers, and military members. There is a "balancing test" between the "significant government interest" and the free speech rights of the private individual.

    The key case is Pickering v. Board of Education:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickering_v._Board_of_Education

    In this case, which involved a letter to the editor, the teacher had a right to speak about issues of public importance because the teacher's right outweighed the chances of a disruption in the workplace.

    It's actually the same kind of argument that schools make when punishing students for cyberbullying on Facebook, even if it didn't take place at school. The Supreme Court hasn't taken that case yet, but a lot of the circuits have ruled that it's OK to take action against the student if it disrupts the student body.
     
  2. Yodel

    Yodel Active Member

    It's not hate to tell the truth.
     
  3. imjustagirl

    imjustagirl Active Member

    1. I don't think teachers are in the business of teaching acceptance. They should be teaching math, or english, or science.
    2. His viewpoint, now that it's VERY public, could make things uncomfortable for his students. And if a gay student gets a questionable grade on something subjective, he/she could make an argument for why. Not saying he/she would, but it's out there now.
     
  4. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    I'll never understand why folks who own their own business tweet (or facebook) on topics that are guaranteed to piss of 50% of the public.

    At the very least, you should have one account for yourself, and one for the business.

    But, if you're the face of the business, and you only have one account, everything you say will reflect on your business.

    The Air & Water Show is this weekend in Chicago.

    So, a guy that owns a burger joint tweeted this

    Air & Water Show = grotesque display of military might. Noisy, crowded, mindless; highlighting all that's wrong with US. Hate it.

    Why would you do that? It will cost you business.
     
  5. vivbernstein

    vivbernstein Member

    Interestingly, it is perfectly legal in 29 states to be fired for being gay. Including Florida ...
     
  6. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    Not interesting. Just more examples of homophobia
     
  7. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    Good point although I tend to agree with the guy. :)
     
  8. joe_schmoe

    joe_schmoe Active Member

    I know this isn't scientific, but before I decided to come back here and post again I did a little experiment, because rather I agree or disagree with him, I still kind of feel he had the right to say it without the consequences that followed, and tended to think some who have a problem have more a problem with the gay rights issue, not free speech issue. (in other words who would feel the same way if he made similar comments calling Christians or Islams or Muslims religious nut jobs, or something similar.) I figured just asking that question may not invoke anyone to be true to themselves, so I ran an experiment.

    Me and a coworker (who both have a couple hundred facebook friends of all walks of life) each posted something similar.
    He posted the question: Does your boss have the right to fire you over something you post on facebook, even if that statement is considered hateful, if it isn't specifically about your job?

    I posted a link to the story and asked for feedback.

    Just looking now he has 12 responses....11 say no.
    I have 10 responses, split. 5/5, two of the five who say yes I know are very supportive of gay rights (one posts gay marriage stories almost anytime one pops up) and I know a third is fairly liberal, and on the other side, two I know are liberal who both defend the free speech and privacy issue as does one who is an evangelical Christian.

    Again, it's not scientific, but it does make me wonder how much our beliefs on one issue are swayed by our beliefs on another. I'm curious to see if any change their tune if my co-worker posts the story link.
     
  9. crimsonace

    crimsonace Well-Known Member

    I don't consider it my job to teach "tolerance," because my conception of tolerance might not be someone else's. It is not my job to teach them the "correct" way to think about hot-button issues, especially when there is quite a bit of evidence to support an opposite position.

    My job is to teach my subject, as neutrally and without bias as possible. It is up to the child's parents to teach tolerance and instill *their* values. I don't want my kids' teachers passing along values that might be contrary to those that my wife and I are trying to instill in our son. It is possible to believe homosexual behavior is sinful without actually "hating" those who participate in it. I can guarantee that I have straight students that are sexually active. I consider that also to be sinful and morally deviant, but doing that doesn't make me a hateful person. Or at least I don't think so.

    If "teaching tolerance" for one set of values or beliefs ever becomes my job, I'd better brush up on my resume, because I won't participate. Until then, I'll continue to provide multiple sides of issues as neutrally and without bias as possible and let my students make up their own mind. What I think after the final bell rings does not affect that -- nor does it affect my relationships with them. Nor should my job be in jeopardy because of that.

    One coda -- a few years ago, I started blogging a political column, just to keep my chops up. But as soon as I realized that I would probably be publishing very pointed opinions on hot-button issues -- even if well-researched -- all it took was for one person to deem me a "hateful person" and my words would be in front of the school board. I quit writing it. I intentionally avoided any gay issues, as taking a position on either side could be problematic. Especially after those who opposed gay marriage in the Prop 8 vote were so heavily targeted and, in many cases, saw their employers harrassed into firing them for privately supporting the "wrong" viewpoint with their dollars. Again, if we get to the point where people are losing their jobs for holding mainstream views on political issues that might possibly offend one small but vocal segment of the population, then we have lowered ourselves to the level of the USSR, Cuba, China ... dissenters are not welcome.
     
  10. imjustagirl

    imjustagirl Active Member

    I wish we could "like" posts on here.
     
  11. Beef03

    Beef03 Active Member

    ditto.
     
  12. schiezainc

    schiezainc Well-Known Member

    The guy is a Class A douchebag and, in my opinion, anyone who agrees with him (Looking at you yodel) is also a Class A douchebag who needs to grow up and join the 21st century.

    That being said, I have to side with those who say he shouldn't lose his job over this.

    Look, I believe the guy is wrong in his views. I believe that we as a society should be tolerant to one another no matter sexual orientation. But we have this idea of free speech that, unfortunately, makes it impossible to pick and choose what is and is not socially acceptable.

    The guy wrote a private statement on a public forum and deserves to be chastised for it. And, going forward, he needs to be under close scrutiny if he is allowing his personal views on this matter to get in the way of his job. But, to me, you shouldn't lose your job over words, no matter how uninformed, hateful or ignorant they are.

    It's only when words beget behavior, in my opinion, that something needs to be done.

    I do, however, wonder what the reaction would have been if he had gone off about a minority group and not gay people. Wonder if those championing for his right to free speech would still be on his side on this one.
     
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