Tanking

The Pacers are a fine example for today, but the Spurs are an even better example. Yes, Duncan was a No. 1, but that was 16 years ago. Parker was the 28th pick, Ginobili was the 57th. San Antonio was by far the best at mining foreign talent, but the gap is closing now.

The thing is, I'm not so sure it's entirely about the players, either. It's about the culture of an organization. Look at what Spurs did last season at Miami, coming a last-second collapse away from beating the Heat with Duncan, Parker and Ginobili sent home early. Yes, the Spurs have three star players, but they also get way more out of their role players than any other team does. I understand that long-term they wouldn't be a top team without Duncan, Parker and Ginobili, but that they can win in the short-term without them says a ton.

I remember the Bucks in the 1980s taking in castoffs and throw-ins who were huge contributors. Ricky Pierce and Craig Hodges were minor pieces of the 1984 Marques Johnson-Terry Cummings trade. Pierce was the 18th pick in the 1982 draft. By the time he got to Milwaukee he was on his third team. But the Bucks had a winning culture. Pierce became one of the league's best scorers, winning the sixth man award. Hodges was a third-round pick (48th overall) in the same draft as Pierce. Came to Milwaukee and was a great role player for five season, averaging between 9.2 and 10.8 ppg.

Hell, the Bucks even got a really nice season out of Scott May, who was a big disappointment as the No. 2 overall pick in 1976. In 1981-82 he had a great season as a bench player for the Bucks. Then he signed with Detroit and only played 9 more NBA games. Injuries were part of it, but he was healthy enough to play another 7 seasons overseas.

 

So what? If you're referring to some "THE BUCKS WILL NEVER GET THE #1 PICK BECAUSE DAVID STERN!!!111" thing…I just…don't care.

 

Sadly, the Eastern Conference sucks so badly that they both probably will make the playoffs.

 

The remainder of the Spurs' roster is a good example. And the way the Spurs have maintained their success so remarkably long is a good example.

HOWEVER, there's no looking past the fact that the whole Spurs thing has been built around a No. 1 overall pick that was acquired during a season when the Spurs are widely believed to have done some late seaso tanking when Popovich made some very suspicious roster and playing time moves. If your team's centerpiece was acquired by moves widely believed part of a plan to drop to the bottom one season... then NO, you're not the best example.

I think the Pacers stand out, on the other hand, because of the way Bird steadfastly resisted going that route even when it appeared to make perfect sense and others were saying he should do it. The Spurs still have Duncan, whereas the Pacers have NO top tier lottery picks (although the do have a guy who sure plays like one in George).

 

And the Thunder got good because of getting Kevin Durant. It is great if you can find good free agent gems, but most of the time those guys turn out to be misses. Have to get a young stud at the top of the draft to turn your franchise around.

 

Andrew Bogut really turned the Bucks around back in '05.

 

Any of the top 3 picks in this draft are franchise changers. In 2005, it was a pretty weak class plus Bucks were desperate for a center. This coming year it is BPA and there are flat out studs to choose from.

 

Is this the brother Bubbler and the Z-Man never talk about?

Welcome!

 

In 2005 the debate was Bogut or Marvin Williams. Bogut clearly was the better choice, even though he was injury prone. The Bucks' problem is that they started to view injuries as almost a character flaw, which was clearly wrong.

Bogut and the team as a whole was playing at an incredibly high level in the spring of 2010 when Bogut suffered that horrific fall while fast-break dunking. If Bogut doesn't get hurt there, that team goes to the second round and is even capable of doing more damage in that round.

As for long-term effects, Bogut being on the roster in 2008 made the Bucks pass on Brook Lopez (10), Robin Lopez (15) and Roy Hibbert (17) in favor of Joe Fucking Alexander at No. 8.

 

funny!

 

The problem with tanking is that losing gets to be a habit/frame of mind. And even if you tank successfully, finish 15-67, and get the No. 1 pick, unless that guy turns out to be an All-Pro superstar right out of the gate, you still have 6-8 of the players who took you to 15-67 on the roster. And they are all a year older.

The All-Pro rookie maybe can lift you to 35 wins. Big whoop; so what?

 

Bogut was a big man who couldn't stay healthy but he was a damn good player for a short while. He was a cornerstone of a Bucks team that finished with 46 wins (not world-beating, but given the 1st half they had, they were awesome) and briefly made the city care about basketball again.

I can't knock that pick. It was Bogut or Marvin Williams, and he was definitely a better fit for the Bucks. Better players went later, but no one considered them at the time. He was also a great, great guy in the community and awesome for the fans, going as far as to buy a section of tickets for the season and give them away for free.

I thought the OP was a kid, so I didn't wanna tear into him, but I think his premise may be true. Milwaukee is pure shit right now, but I think they're very close to turning a corner. It's entirely dependent on hitting in this draft with a top 3 pick, but if that happens, the rest of the puzzle pieces appear to be coming together. Giannis looks like he's going to be a special player, Henson is a good secondary option, Sanders can be a stopper and Middleton is a solid rotational player.

I wouldn't be terrible surprised if they're a top 4 team in the East in 2 years or so.