Support For Iraq War Dwindling

So now if you don't like what a president is doing, that's grounds enough for impeachment? Sounds like we'll be saying this about EVERY president pretty soon.

 

Yes Lyman, that's precisely what's been suggested. :

There's a big difference between not liking what a president is doing and a president being held accountable for violations of the law and public trust.

But why am I not surprised that you fail to see the distinction?

 

I've had that same observation on numerous occasions. In a couple years, I'm fully expecting a book from a Bush White House staffer exposing how he returned to the bottle midway through his time in office.

 

True, but Crazy Dick Changes Tune would have been just as ambiguous.

 

It's Clintonian rage, Lyman.


Tossing this to you liberals: Do you think so many collective people around a president would hold firm to an unpopular policy just because they're stubborn? Would they sacrifice so much personally for that? Could it be that they know something from the illegal wiretapping (or other measures) that they can't or won't deliver to the public, much like cops won't divulge everything about their cases before it goes to trial? Are you people so vain that you'd demand that? Do you demand it from your local police? Could there be more important issues than your political survival?

Why am I asking you, of all people, such questions?
Of course there's not. Bush is just evil.

Clinton/Sheehan in 2008, right?

 

First of all, there are fewer people siding with the president now than ever. The rats are abandoning the ship.

Second, in his inner circle, he only keeps people around who "hold firm" to his unpopular policy. And they aren't necessarily "stubborn." They are simply caught between a rock and a hard place. "Hold firm" and enjoy the WH perks, or abandon him and be cast aside.

The people who question him (generals, Secretaries of State, etc.) are tossed overboard.

Ask John McCain. All he sacrificed was any chance he ever had to be president. Nothing really important.

 

Or could it be that you cling to that notion because to admit otherwise would be a repudiation of nearly every fundamental tenet conservatives of Bush's ilk have governed by since 2001 and screamed for prior to that?

To me, continued support for the war comes down to one thing that encapsulates something much bigger: Bush-conservatives don't want to admit that their philosophies don't work, particularly foreign policy foundation stones. Think about it. Every counterpoint about continuing this war is couched in language like, "we can't surrender", "we can't suffer the prestige blow of losing a war", "we can't let our soldiers down", "we can't walk away from something we started."

It's language that poorly conceals a simplistic go down with the ship mentality, blindly believing that to follow a badly-flawed policy to its bitter end is more honorable than walking away from a badly-flawed policy before it gets worse.

It's pure madness in the face of the reality of what is an unmitigated disaster right now. We've already taken the prestige hits, we've already caused more problems than we could have ever hoped to solve, we haven't solved any of the problems of terrorism, only served to exacerbate them, we've already sacrificed soldiers and countless others in vain. But none of that matters in the face of admitting FAILURE. My God! Failure! That's anathema! America right or wrong and all that ...

That's the root of this. Conservatives like Bush and his shrinking legion of supporters (those who have walked away, like the now lauded Lugar, etc., should have known better than to put their brains on hold for six years to begin with) don't want to admit outright defeat of their war because to do so would be an admission that its failure is the ultimate endgame (I hope) of their basic foreign policy philosophies and their failures. Right now Bush-Cheney are exhibits A and B of stubborness.

I have no doubt in my mind the Bush administration would rather see a terrorist attack on our soil before they would have to admit failure of their own policies. In their twisted way, they'd turn that attack into a triumphal confirmation of their policies and there would be plenty of gullibles who would eat it up either out of fear or stupidity.

Fear of failure is that strong for a group that has made its policies into some kind of dipshit messianic quest and are dangerous as a result.

 

Tremendous, tremendous point.

 

He's just calling bullshit on Fenian's phrasing.

Even I found that a little comical.

 

Most of the world hated this country before those dates, too, junkie. Most of us were too distracted to notice.

If they loved us on Sept. 20, it was because they loved to see us knocked down a bit.

 

Frightened little boy.

Not true.

Hate is absolutely the wrong word. What a stunner.

 

Absolutely true. I guess you don't get out much, eh?