Student loans

BTW, with these jobs that are supposed to help pay tuition, did anyone ever here something about taxes?

Most students are dependents, they will have a tax liability if they make over $10,000 year. You are going to have some type of tax liability if you are making what you need to make. I don't buy the working hard angle, maybe 17 years ago it was possible with some discipline, but the costs are so outrageous now I don't know anyone who has actually done it recently. None of my friends in college even tried.

We are also assuming that college students are going to a state school, going in-state, and probably living at home. For a lot of students, that is not possible.

If you can barely figure out a way to get it done at a state school, in-state, and living at home, it can't be done. Forget a place like Syracuse. Coming out of there with a Communications Degree?

 

You officially suck. That is all.

 

They had college courses high school students could take in the evening at my school. I assumed you were referring to something like that. But the job part I was referring to was earlier you mentioned how working through high school and college to graduate debt free was a good idea. I mean I couldn't imagine going to school during the day then a couple of night classes plus working all those hours.

 

About what?

The interest rate for consolidation is at an historic low. It's a fact. There are related forbearancy/hardship programs -- yearlong if need be -- that will cut you a break and let you get back on your feet. It's a fact.

I don't talk out my ass about things I don't know about, unlike so many of the kiddies at this site.

 

No, Kathy, I think he's talking about the joint-enrollment classes like I took. You commute to a local CC and take them during regular high school hours, in place of high school classes.

I had to go through a TON of red-tape bullshit to be able to get permission to be off campus during those hours, because it was right after Columbine. But they're taken during the day, just like high school classes.

And yes, my SEC-country standards ain't very high.
(Then again, we were on block scheduling. We only took four classes in a semester. If I could have taken four college classes, I would have. ... But to play ball, the requirement was two HS classes. The joint-enrollment classes didn't count toward the pass-and-play rules. Pretty reasonable exception, IMO, but I don't make the rules. ... I chose to play ball instead of take two more J-E college classes -- pretty easy decision.)

 

Yes. When you make money, you pay taxes.

When you make more money, you pay more taxes. When you make even more money, you pay even more taxes.

Buck, Kathy: My school district offers the college classes that are actually taught in the high school building.

 

In my district, each school had its own policies. Some high schools in the county didn't even offer joint-enrollment classes at the local CC (ostensibly, because their campuses were much farther away than mine from the CC, and nobody liked the idea of students commuting during school hours.)

My HS offered it, but I had to commute to the college -- AND the class time had to fall in line with a regular high school period (meaning they wouldn't let you sign up for a 9-9:55 a.m. college class because it conflicted with first and second periods at the HS.)

Plus, as I mentioned, there was a huge amount of red-tape bullshit over leaving campus because this was right after Columbine. It was a real hassle trying to do joint-enrollment, in my experience.

 

Students can also earn college credit through AP tests, but taking the AP classes increases the homework load and cuts into the time they could be working at that after-school job.

 

AP classes are nice. I pretty much didn't have to take any the freshman requirements because of that and it let me get a double major in just four years.
You probably do have more homework to do, but it's still manageable with a job.
That said, I'll echo the input of a lot of people and say yeah, this day in age, you're going to have student loans. Still, luckily they're comparatively low interest as far as loans go.

As far as the poster who asked (a lot) earlier about how important it was where you go, it's probably right that, if you're good, you'll be fine wherever you go. But I've seen sooooo many people from other colleges that come out of school infinitely less prepared to hit the ground running than I was, and that has given me a big appreciation for the education I got.

 

LJB:
People who are defaulting are not making an effort to pay.

Cicago Sun-Times:
But for those who run into trouble, changes in federal laws -- including many in the last decade -- have made student loans among the hardest debts to discharge. They've also made the loans among the most lucrative for private lenders. Because the government backs the loans, private lenders face little risk but reap the benefits when balances balloon.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/couriernews/news/373911,3_1_EL07_A1LOANS_S1.article

Student loan debt could lead to big problems
May 7, 2007
By Dave Newbart SUN-TIMES NEWS GROUP

They liken it to a financial death sentence.

They can't get a car loan, a home mortgage or any other type of loan. They've lost jobs and even spouses over it.

They are so humiliated they don't want any of their friends or family to know.

And for most, there is no way out.

They are former students trapped under the weight of student loans. The same vehicle that allowed them to get a college education has left many graduates buried in debt with no reasonable way to climb out.

Some students who never graduate are stuck paying off loans without the earning power of a degree -- an estimated additional $1 million in lifetime earnings.

And some students who finish can't afford the monthly payments. Others lose jobs and can't catch up. Then they get turned down by employers who increasingly check credit records before hiring.

Some say they would make small monthly payments to show good faith -- only to see their balances continue to grow and to receive harassing phone calls from collectors.

To be sure, most borrowers pay on time; default rates are at an all-time low.

But for those who run into trouble, changes in federal laws -- including many in the last decade -- have made student loans among the hardest debts to discharge. They've also made the loans among the most lucrative for private lenders. Because the government backs the loans, private lenders face little risk but reap the benefits when balances balloon.

Some borrowers say they accept reasonable interest, but they believe the fees and penalties -- which over time can double or triple the loan balances -- are unfair.

Interest rate over 18%

Many of the students awash in debt say that they were blinded by the promise a college degree holds and unprepared to take on high levels of debt at such a young age.

Connie Martin's son signed up for cooking school in Chicago in 2002 at age 25. To pay for it, he borrowed $73,000, mostly in private loans from Sallie Mae, the largest student lender, at more than 18 percent interest.

"He didn't know what the interest rate was. ... He just wanted to go to school," said Martin, of Sycamore.

His first payment was $1,100 a month, his entire monthly salary at a downtown eatery where he went to work after graduation.

"I don't understand how they can lend a kid that kind of money with no credit history, who never owned anything, with no co-signers," said his mother, who only learned of the situation after the bills started to pile up.

Sallie Mae officials said they no longer offer such high-interest loans, and have offered students a chance to refinance at a lower rate if certain conditions are met.

"We recognize it's high," spokeswoman Martha Holler said.

Martin's son declined to comment. His balance since has grown to $98,000.

'Like indentured servitude'

Greg Treece, of downstate Mattoon, now wishes he never enrolled in Washington University's Occupational Therapy program.

"Choosing an expensive private school and borrowing the money to go there is the single greatest mistake I have ever made," he said.

Treece took out $84,000 in loans. Six months after he got out of the St. Louis school, his monthly payment was more than half his take-home pay for his first job in Chicago. He later lost his job. With compounding interest, his loan quickly skyrocketed. At times he seriously wished he could go to jail in exchange for wiping out the debt.

With a new job, he's managed to pay $60,000, but his balance remains at $111,000 because of fees, penalties and interest.

"It's like indentured servitude," he said.

For those who default, lenders truly can play hardball, often employing no-scruples private collection firms that call borrowers as often as 10 times a day.

Shirley, an Ivy League-educated lawyer, lost her job in Chicago in the late 1980s. She pleaded for reduced payments from a collector working for the Illinois Student Assistance Commission -- but was denied.

"I said, 'You are driving me to bankruptcy,'" she recalled. "They wouldn't budge."

In bankruptcy court, ISAC claimed she owed $78,000, which included $13,000 for collection costs, 20 percent of the total debt. Nearly all of the debt eventually was erased, according to court records.

Because that was before the recent law changes, she should have been clear.

Loan chief admits mistakes

But several years later, the collectors began calling again -- first from ISAC and then from the U.S. Education Department. They claimed the bill now was over $100,000.

"It was as though they were above the law," she said. She eventually went to court again and proved she no longer owed the money, but her husband left her in the process. She asked that her real name not be used out of fear of retaliation.

ISAC and the Education Department say they have several programs that allow students to delay payments in hard times or make lower ones based on income. Officials say they try to help borrowers in default get back into good standing, a process known as rehabilitation. Last year, ISAC rehabbed $30 million in defaulted loans, up from $4.4 million in 2002.

Agency director Andy Davis says the agency has to strike a balance between helping borrowers repay and making sure taxpayers aren't left in the lurch.

But he acknowledges his workers "make mistakes" and said he is looking to make changes in some of the outsourcing of collections.

Then there are those with hard luck, who make bad decisions or just simply can't get a break.

Richard and Sheila Friese both have degrees from Southern Illinois University, financed in part on student loans. They also both were discharged from the Navy after suffering injuries while serving stateside. Richard is learning disabled.

They have never been able to find high-paying jobs; now they both use wheelchairs to get around and suffer from ailments including arthritis, constant abdominal pain and chronic fatigue. They're fighting with the Veterans Administration over benefits; they also are wrangling with the Social Security Administration.

'We will never go away'

The Frieses have no income to pay off their combined $141,000 loan balance. ISAC has seized $3,200 in tax refunds from Sheila, 37. Richard, 49, avoids the phone after constantly being called by collectors for Sallie Mae -- one of whom he claims called him a "low-life S.O.B." Holler said Sallie Mae's collectors are trained in fair debt-collection practices.

"That should not happen," she said.

If this were any other debt, experts say, the couple would be able to discharge some or all of it through bankruptcy. But the Frieses, of Mundelein, are stuck.

"Our life has hit a brick wall," Richard said.

Davis said it might make sense for the federal government to "write off" debt if borrowers -- particularly vets -- have no hope of paying.

Pam, 58, of Dolton, graduated from downstate Southern Illinois University-Edwardsville in 1984, but spent time on welfare. She eventually defaulted on her loan after a dispute over the amount of the balance and monthly payments. Her $12,500 in loans has grown to $28,000. Experts say borrowers should continue to make payments during a dispute so the loan doesn't get out of control.

She has gone underground, blocking collectors' calls and running her own business so her wages can't be garnisheed. But when collectors do get through, they have a harsh message.

"When they call they say, 'We will never go away until you are dead.'"

 

Dude chose Wash U. Did he think this would be cheap? If you're going to go to a top echelon med or law school, or even a public or real ivy, you better be sure you're in a position where you will be paid commensurate to the expense of your education. If you can't, go someplace else.

I simply don't find this believable. Just like when you're in appeals with your insurance company over a hospital bill, the organization, the professional one anyway, will say the equivalency of, "We understand the situation. Just stay in communication with us." If you blow off the bills, they are certainly going to crawl up your ass.

You can call this crude and calloused, PoO, or generalizing. Maybe I was just lucky. It's not easy giving them a pound of flesh every month, but it's a duty and responsibility -- and in my mind -- an issue of pride. I'd rather pay them for something they helped me earn than fucks like the IRS.

 

LJB,
I just thought your comment was a little overly general and not congruent with some things I'd read and heard lately. Personally, I've got two degrees, $15k remaining in student loans (paid for much of it myself) an 800+ credit score and have never missed a payment. With that said, I'm about to go to borrow some more for law school, and rack up more interest at 7%-plus on my current debt. That's a higher rate than my auto loan.

Hopefully my good fortune will continue and I never will miss a payment. But God forbid I develop a serious health condition and fall on hard times while the penalties and compound interested double or triple my balance without the possibility of clearing it through bankrupcy (a last-ditch, and painful option in itself). It's the only debt in country that will unequivocally follow you to death.