Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose" - UPDATED, NEEDS TJ

JC · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

hondo said:

spnited said:

Extremely low pitch count limits in the minors. They don't need to be throwing 100 pitches but 60-65 at Double A is not enough to build arm strength.
They don't throw enough between starts. One bullpen session is not enough. Long-tossing -- not pitching -- every day builds arms strength.
They don't run as much as pitchers used. Rube Walker, pitching coach ofnthe 69 mets (Seaver, Ryan, Koosman, etc.) beleieved in building leg strength and lower body drive to get more power on pitches with less strain on the arm.
These things are why, with training methods and medicine suppsedly so much better today, it does not make sense that young pitchers have to be wet-nursed to prevent arm injuries.
It's not a question of pitching in games as much as what they are allowed to and expected to do between starts to build their strength.
Click to expand...

Superb points and goes back to my contention that they can't keep playing six-inning games with this kid. If his shoulder is hurt now, fine. That's not the information we had when I made the post. But to repeat, the arm is a collection of muscle, and you have to use it to get it strong.
And yo, JC. I know it's Leo Mazzone. I confused the name with Frank Malzone or something. I wasn't aware you never made a mistake.
Click to expand...

You're right, Spnited made some excellent points. Points you did not make.

Azrael · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

All due respect to Rube Walker, but for every Seaver or Ryan he coached, he saw 100 hard-throwing bushers come through spring training never to be heard from again. In shape or out of shape, one day their arms glassed up and they were back on a tractor somewhere. Seaver and Ryan and Feller and Spahn and Johnson, et al. are the outliers, the aberrations. You can train them, and you can toughen them and you can fiddle with their mechanics. But you can't coach destiny.

The average length of a pitcher's career is under five years. And has remained so for a long time, despite better training and all our modern advantages.

The fact is that the harder you throw, the more vulnerable you are to injury. http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/38/4/728.abstract

Sure, maybe they should've worked Strasburg harder in the minors.

(For the thread starter, because of the thin, thin premise of this entire thread): But not resting the team's only asset because of stiffness? C'mon.

spnited · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

I believe I said this:

"In this case, as soon as a kid of this ability has shoulder pain, you shut him down."

Perhaps you should read a little more carefully.

Azrael · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

Was that line addressed to you?

Or to the thread starter?

Think hard.

spnited · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

Azrael said:

All due respect to Rube Walker, but for every Seaver or Ryan he coached, he saw 100 hard-throwing bushers come through spring training never to be heard from again. In shape or out of shape, one day their arms glassed up and they were back on a tractor somewhere. Seaver and Ryan and Feller and Spahn and Johnson, et al. are the outliers, the aberrations. You can train them, and you can toughen them and you can fiddle with their mechanics. But you can't coach destiny.

The average length of a pitcher's career is under five years. And has remained so for a long time, despite better training and all our modern advantages.

The fact is that the harder you throw, the more vulnerable you are to injury. http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/38/4/728.abstract

Sure, maybe they should've worked Strasburg harder in the minors.

But not resting the team's only asset because of stiffness? C'mon.
Click to expand...

Considering everything in this post addresses what I posted, yes, it appears to be addressed to me.

Azrael · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

Jesus.

OK. I fixed it so your feelings wouldn't be hurt.

spnited · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

Didn't hurt my feelings at all...this is a freaking message, who cares.
It appeared to be addressed to me and was not representative of what I said.

Bob Cook · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

spnited said:

Extremely low pitch count limits in the minors. They don't need to be throwing 100 pitches but 60-65 at Double A is not enough to build arm strength.
They don't throw enough between starts. One bullpen session is not enough. Long-tossing -- not pitching -- every day builds arms strength.
They don't run as much as pitchers used. Rube Walker, pitching coach ofnthe 69 mets (Seaver, Ryan, Koosman, etc.) beleieved in building leg strength and lower body drive to get more power on pitches with less strain on the arm.
These things are why, with training methods and medicine suppsedly so much better today, it does not make sense that young pitchers have to be wet-nursed to prevent arm injuries.
It's not a question of pitching in games as much as what they are allowed to and expected to do between starts to build their strength.
Click to expand...

One thing Rube Walker didn't have in his day was young pitchers who had been throwing curveballs in 100-game travel ball schedules since age 8. I'm not saying this is the case with Strasburg, but you have a lot of young pitchers whose arms are on short time from the moment they get drafted.

Certainly, plenty of arms burned out in the old days, too. But because pitchers weren't paid $10 million a year (or its equivalent for inflation), there wasn't the pressure to "protect the investment." Now a burned-out arm can mean not only a catastrophe in terms of losing talent, but also a financial millstone that hang around a franchise's neck for seemingly eons.

Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

This baby keeps getting to be the "story" while hard working Americans like Daniel Nava get little or no media attention.

Sickening.

And by "this baby" I mean Strasburg not Azrael.

Azrael · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

Don't BABY me!

hondo · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

JC said:

hondo said:

spnited said:

Extremely low pitch count limits in the minors. They don't need to be throwing 100 pitches but 60-65 at Double A is not enough to build arm strength.
They don't throw enough between starts. One bullpen session is not enough. Long-tossing -- not pitching -- every day builds arms strength.
They don't run as much as pitchers used. Rube Walker, pitching coach ofnthe 69 mets (Seaver, Ryan, Koosman, etc.) beleieved in building leg strength and lower body drive to get more power on pitches with less strain on the arm.
These things are why, with training methods and medicine suppsedly so much better today, it does not make sense that young pitchers have to be wet-nursed to prevent arm injuries.
It's not a question of pitching in games as much as what they are allowed to and expected to do between starts to build their strength.
Click to expand...

Superb points and goes back to my contention that they can't keep playing six-inning games with this kid. If his shoulder is hurt now, fine. That's not the information we had when I made the post. But to repeat, the arm is a collection of muscle, and you have to use it to get it strong.
And yo, JC. I know it's Leo Mazzone. I confused the name with Frank Malzone or something. I wasn't aware you never made a mistake.
Click to expand...

You're right, Spnited made some excellent points. Points you did not make.
Click to expand...

So what's your point? Aside from being a smart-ass?

spnited · Jul 29, 2010

Re: Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose"

It's now official ... Strasburg is on the DL

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-nationals-strasburgdl

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Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose" - UPDATED, NEEDS TJ

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Strasburg scratched because he couldn't "get loose" - UPDATED, NEEDS TJ

JC Well-Known Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

spnited Active Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

spnited Active Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

spnited Active Member

Bob Cook Active Member

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Azrael Well-Known Member

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