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St. Louis Post-Dispatch drops George Will from rotation

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by LongTimeListener, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    A lot of people on this board lack any semblance of critical thinking skills. You're not usually one of them.
     
  2. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    If the men on this thread as a majority can say they've never had a sexual encounter that involved persuading a partner who was initially reluctant, I'll stand corrected.

    But I don't think that's the case. And if it is the case here, I'd bet large money that our sample group would be in a small minority, especially among people who have ever lived on college campuses.
     
  3. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    The fact that it's so common is *exactly* the type of social norm that's trying to be reversed. By giving men a better understanding of what sexual assault is.
     
  4. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    By the way, it should be mentioned that the false-accusation shaming, despite false accusations being exceedingly rare, is another big factor in the drastic underreporting of incidents.
     
  5. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Do you count RAINN or the victims' advocate lawyer as false-accusation shamers? They are among the people saying the definition has gotten overly broad.
     
  6. dirtybird

    dirtybird Well-Known Member

    I'm always kind of interested in this strain of logic because a lot of times it seems (and maybe you're not implying it) that some folks have the sense a lot of women are making accusations for non-legitimate and petty reasons. That an accusation comes after being rebuffed or after a relationship goes sour.

    I'm sure there are some cases of that, but with the length and burden the legal process creates, I'd imagine a shift more toward inaction. It seems far more likely someone who was assaulted would not press charges because of the emotional challenges, dealing with skepticism, the time, and the likely result of the assailant not being found guilty (it's still he-said, she-said with innocent until proven guilty in court). The sense of inertia seems like it would cause more people to stay quiet and impede false accusations. Maybe there are really a lot of crazy women willing to go through that for vengeance. But a lot of the time (I'll give credit and assume not in your case), some men seem to believe that as part of a larger lower opinion of women.

    As for that Swarthmore guideline, that strikes me as poor wording and little else. It's not OK to have sex with someone who is hardly responsive becuase they're impaired. But it's written in a broader way, which should be clarified.
     
  7. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    They are? RAINN specifically calls for eliminating inconsistencies in how state laws define it, in order to make it easier to prosecute.

    They don't support narrowing the definition. They support clarifying it.
     
  8. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    I'm reading it more as: Two young people have sex. One of them does not know how drunk she was (I'm not talking about passed-out or vomiting drunk, but someone who probably would have a BAC of .10 if there were a breathalyzer handy and thus is not making the best decisions). And that person believes after the fact -- and is now being told by the establishment -- that this is rape because she was not in position to give consent in the first place. There are a lot of sexual encounters that people end up regretting for one reason or another.

    The law doesn't recognize it as sexual assault, but a college campus (which is under extreme political pressure) convenes a panel that labels it as such, maybe by a 51-49 percentage basis.

    That's very dangerous territory.
     
  9. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Right. And they also note that the current panels in place "lack protection for the accused."

    It's a good link.

    http://www.phillymag.com/news/2014/03/24/nations-largest-rape-victim-advocacy-group-sez-rape-culture-duh/

    To be very clear, RAINN in no way condones or advocates victim blaming. Sexual assault is a violent crime and those who commit these crimes are solely responsible for their actions. That said, we believe that it is important to educate members of a campus community on actions they can take to increase their personal safety. In fact, we believe it’s irresponsible not to do so.
     
  10. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    If she was not in position to give consent, it IS rape. What you're forgetting, though, is that it is subject to a "reasonable person" standard, i.e., would a reasonably smart person recognize that this person is not capable of giving consent? But even still, that's in the absence of explicit consent.

    This is why it might be a good idea to educate would-be rapists instead of would-be victims.

    By saying this, I can only assume you believe that some rape accusations are borne out of regretting one's decisions. To which, I say that shows a dangerous ignorance bordering on contempt.
     
  11. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    OK.

    And I think based on your previous reactions, you have no choice but to lump RAINN in as a group that blames the victim.
     
  12. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    In what world are women not educated about ways to increase their personal safety? Must be the same world where no one is taught that alcohol impairs judgement.

    Also, from that same link: "Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime."

    THAT finally puts the blame in the only place it belongs.

    The rest of that link has to do with adjudication on college campuses, which is something I agree with - but this discussion has gone beyond that.
     
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