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Some good news about the economy for once

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by mustangj17, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    Tishman Speyer, who had every means to continue to pay, just decided to give up and hand the keys back. It's business.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/26/nyregion/26stuy.html

    Jingle Mail on a $5.4 billion dollar deal.

    People need to do what's best for their family.
     
  2. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    Morgan Stanley walked away from 5 buildings in San Fran.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aLYZhnfoXOSk

    Play by the current rules or get run over. There are repurcussions.. ruined credit score... possible tax issues... you deal with them as they come. Its nothing but business.
     
  3. britwrit

    britwrit Well-Known Member

    The American economy is consumer driven. In the short term, all this responsible living-within-our-means, paying down of debt, is killing us.

    In the medium term, we're going to go through a lot-less dreadful version of what happened to the Soviet Union. Bye-bye dreams of having a bigger military than everyone else on the planet combined. And bye-bye drug war. Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
     
  4. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    And we're better off as a society with both of those developments.
     
  5. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    I also hear some folks say they refused to collect unemployment even when they were entitled. I think that's crazy.

    Would you refuse an insurance check if you wrecked your car?
     
  6. WriteThinking

    WriteThinking Well-Known Member

    I agree, in principle and sentiment, with the views of zag and nmmetsfan.

    In reality, something that I think is being overlooked and that may be different from the last time most people alive today were losing jobs regularly (remember, there hasn't been a time anything quite like this since the Depression era) is the length of time that it is taking most people to get employed again, in a meaningful, fully self-supporting way.

    These days, industries and business of all kinds are looking for the cheapest ways to go. That means part-time jobs, temp jobs, low wages, no benefits, cut retirement contributions, and no qualms about letting people go again if business isn't as good as they would like it to be.

    Well, these kinds of jobs are not self-supporting for any adult in a typical adult's living situation. And, they are certainly not mortgage-supporting, or family-supporting. Sometimes, they are not even worth doing for the money that will be brought in because the trade-off of work to take-home pay is not time-worthy for someone with adult-sized financial needs. I know, because this is a cycle I've been stuck in for a while now, because I've kept thinking/hoping I cannot possibly be as unemployable as I apparently am. Even so, I don't think it's through any fault of my own, and it's certainly not for lack of trying to find another full-time job.

    Aside from some freelance writing and an assortment of various short-term, temp jobs lasting anywhere from a week to six months, however, I have been unemployed for nearly three years now. Not totally, mind you, but not nearly enough to be paying my mortgage easily on a consistent basis, either.

    This, after I did that, easily, responsibly and happily, for 17 years before being forced about 18 months ago to move in with family and rent my place out, thereby handing off my mortgage, and a condo that I never would have left otherwise, in hopes of hanging on to it. So far, so good...

    By contrast, the only other time in my life that I was unemployed for any length of time, the duration of that stretch was a comparatively brief four months. Also, I was about 27, instead of pushing middle age, something that I have no doubt is also contributing to my problems now. Regardless, I know I am not the only one in this situation.

    Not everyone who loses a home, or gives it up either to foreclosure or just to good business sense, does so because of a character flaw or an unwillingness to be responsible for themselves or their lives.

    This isn't about assessing "blame." People usually make the best decisions they can at the time. Times change, and so do people, based on what happens to them. And, when they are in a financial-drowning situation -- because this world is all about money, unfortunately -- people do whatever they have to do, and sometimes even resort to things they would never do otherwise.

    You can't know all about and judge other people's situations.
     
  7. nmmetsfan

    nmmetsfan Active Member

    I'm not going to hold it against someone who is making decisions about supporting a family or stumbling into a situation (through no fault of their own), and they have to be foreclosed on. If the choice is fight to keep paying a mortgage or put food on the table for your kids, hey I get it.

    Tishman Speyer and Morgan Stanley are in the business of playing the system. It's not my style but I won't begrudge them.

    If you have a mortgage and bail on it simply because the market dropped and your house depreciated and it's not an issue of being able to pay but deciding you just don't want to (a business decision), that's a douche move. If enough people do that eventually the market will correct itself. What that means is banks will make it more difficult for average joes to get a loan.
     
  8. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    maybe every bit as dreadful, or more; our standard of living has a hell of a lot farther to fall than the U.S.S.R.'s did. But that will all change soon.
     
  9. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    People aren't walking away from their homes because the value has dropped. They're walking away from it because they can't afford to own it. They either lost their jobs, or they foolishly took those adjustable rate mortgages, thinking they would be able to refinance in a few years. Well, that refinancing never came through.

    Now, buyers were partially at fault, for taking these gimmick adjustable rate mortgages, never thinking about the consequences several years down the road. But at the same time, as a buyer, if you're seeing the prices skyrocket faster than your paycheck, and knowing that prices generally appreciate throughout history, you wanted to get a home before you would lose any chance of owning one. So, they made a decision, more or less, out of panic.
     
  10. mustangj17

    mustangj17 Active Member

    While I tend to agree with your school of thought, had Obama not bailed out GM/Chrysler - GM and Chrysler would not have been able to pay their suppliers. They share suppliers with Ford and Toyota (others too). The supplier network would have failed. Ford was already running through its 26 million dollar loan - and we all know about the Toyota problems. The Big 3 would have been destroyed and Toyota would have been slammed too. I know Toyota is a foreign company, but they also employ a lot of Americans.

    So here we would be with the possibility of no Ford, GM, Chrysler, no American supplier network, significantly less Toyota jobs in America. And now at this point we would be waiting for the trickle down. Many more without jobs, not spending money, buying cars or making house payments. More defaulted mortgages. More debt. More problems.
     
  11. WriteThinking

    WriteThinking Well-Known Member

    This is exactly right. People aren't walking away from homes because they don't feel like paying for them.

    My own situation had nothing to do with any inability or unwillingness to live within my means -- I've always been pretty good at it. Indeed, I never had any credit card/debt issues, at all, until I was unemployed for a long period of time.

    My mortgage is actually very modest, especially for the area of the country in which I live. I have always had a fixed interest rate, and it is reasonable after being refinanced once.

    Without a steady job good enough to support a mortgage, however, it is still too much.

    This entire problem goes back to jobs, and the employment crisis. It is the single most important thing -- maybe even the only thing -- that really matters to most people in this country right now. Politicians should take note. As the economy goes, so go the approval ratings of those types.
     
  12. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    a) the GM/Chrysler bailout was not Obama's idea: it was proposed by the previous administration (although furiously opposed by many of the leading lights of their own party).

    b ) had the Big 3 gone totally tits-up, we would not be talking about 10% unemployment, but 30%. Nationwide.
     
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