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Slate Interview: Its hard living on food stamps

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by poindexter, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    Sorry, the fed didn't force banks or borrowers to take bad risks. The risks they took were terrible even with suppressed interest rates. They got greedy.

    You know what would have been good to have in place? More regulation.
     
  2. britwrit

    britwrit Well-Known Member

    I don't know. Is there really a link between high home ownership and unemployment? Singapore (90% home ownership versus around 2 percent unemployment), Canada (69% vs. 6.9%), Norway (80% vs. 3.6%) and China (90% vs. 4%) might suggest otherwise.
     
  3. Morris816

    Morris816 Member

    I can understand the point Ragu wants to make: When you own a home, you own something that ties you down to an area and it takes a while to pay off the cost in full. Hence, if you lose your job, you are hesitant to leave the area to do so because you need to sell the home or you have what could be "double expenses" for housing (renting in your new location while paying off the mortgage in the previous location).

    With that said, I can understand the point Baron wants to make. Certainly nobody is guaranteed (promised) a job will be theirs for a long time, but that's a factor a person has to weigh before they take another job, regardless of whether they own or rent their residence.

    For example, not every apartment or house that's available for rent is furnished. Some are partially furnished, some have just basic appliances, some have just the stove. (No joke: Two places I looked at in my most recent move had no refrigerator, but places that did have one either had no available units, or were in awful shape and in a bad neighborhood — and regarding the latter, I don't think anybody at this forum would accept living in such units.)

    And on that subject, you need to consider how much you pay for rent, depending on the job, and how long the lease is going to be for.

    Back to furnishings — if an apartment you want to rent is mostly unfurnished, you need to acquire certain furnishings. If you then have to move because you got another job, you either need to take everything you acquired, see if someone is willing to buy it, give it away or throw it away. The last option probably isn't ideal and the third option — well, let's just say I'm a big believer that the tax code needs to be simplified, so you can imagine what I think of the old "oh but you get a tax writeoff" argument.

    And then there's more... you have to change addresses, which means everything from any forms of ID to bank accounts need to be changed to reflect that.

    So getting another job somewhere else isn't as simple as whether or not one owns a home. I will say that I don't believe Ragu is saying that, but I think he misses part of Baron's point that, because there's uncertainty regarding the job market with outsourcing being more common, that making a move can be a more difficult decision to make if you aren't sure that the job you take, when a move is required, will still be there once you settle in.
     
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    In this case, "they got greedy" directly translates to "people respond to the incentives in front of them."

    Did people take out loans to buy houses they couldn't afford, because they got low teaser rates that made it possible? Sure.

    Did banks make those loans without checking whether borrowers were lying about their incomes or how much they were leveraging themselves? Sure.

    Did speculators buy packaged securities of those assets without understanding their risks because rates had been rigged? Sure.

    Did others insure those securities without the risk-premium that would have been built in in an environment in which rates weren't rigged? Sure.

    And to look for whatever bad guy you feel the need to make responsible that way, still ignores the fact that an actual marketplace is the best insurance against debt/credit bubbles.

    When interest rates reflect reality there aren't skewed incentives -- instead of being manipulated intentionally toward zero so we can monetize a massive cultural spending problem.

    Interest rates don't reflect a market reality in this country, because they are controlled by a bunch of bureaucrats who, since the 1970s (except for a period in the late 70s when they let rates rise because of the mess they created backed them into a corner similar to the one we have created today on a bigger scale) have suppressed rates to varying degrees depending on how much of a debt mess our government was making.

    We can either live within our means (something that as a country nobody seems to want to accept) or we can look for ways to live on credit. You can only roll up so much debt before people will stop lending to you. Which is why we have a central bank that exists in practice to import inflation by debasing our currency (to reduce our debt in real terms) so we can keep borrowing.

    That central bank made credit cheap for our government (to roll up debt -- $1 trillion a year on top of an accumulated debt in the 10s of trillions) and sold the lie that it was creating economic prosperity for everyone else in the process by making credit cheap.

    So everyone responded to that incentive and borrowed.

    And it created a massive credit bubble that still exists and has gotten worse since the housing collapse. When you finance wars and entitlement programs and other government spending programs and consumer home purchases and iPhones by borrowing and debasing your currency to try to keep borrowing more and more, you are living an unsustainable lie.

    When the next collapse comes -- in the student-loan market, in the housing market (which still hasn't been allowed to correct), in the stock market, in the art market, or any and all of a bunch of other overinflated marketplaces that are being propped up because of skewed incentives that begin with interest rate manipulation (and that isn't the end of it, because you can't make rates lower than zero, so they actually went on this insane experiment buying up debt securities from their markets and creating a massive balance sheet to inject more and more liquidity into our banks) -- will you be looking for the greedy guy (whichever one in particular you want to demonize) that caused it all, rather than looking at the manipulation at the heart of it, which created the incentives everyone was responding to?
     
  5. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    Opinion: Poor people make bad decisions, because their brains aren't as good.

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-why-poor-people-make-bad-decisions-20131125,0,7968698.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fmostviewed+%28L.A.+Times+-+Most+Viewed+Stories%29#axzz2lhoWGtif
     
  6. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    Booo to modding
     
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