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"shucked & jived" offensive?

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by nutgraph, May 15, 2007.

  1. Bob Slydell

    Bob Slydell Active Member

    ???? what the hell does that mean? We're trying to have a serious discussion of the issue.
     
  2. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    What about puke and thrive?
     
  3. Bob Slydell

    Bob Slydell Active Member

    But there was a Spearchucker Jones in MASH because he threw the javelin.
     
  4. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    What about Nuke and five?
     
  5. Frank_Ridgeway

    Frank_Ridgeway Well-Known Member

    Your dictionary has a more benign definition than mine in the Webster's New World, the generally accepted dictionary for newsrooms:

    1.) An elaborate step or walk formerly performed by blacks in the South competing for the prize of the cake.

    I suppose why it's "formerly performed" is because since the end of slavery, black people can buy or make their own damn cakes, they no longer have to perform "elaborate steps or walks" like circus animals to win one from Master.

    Zagoshe, I really don't understand what your damn problem is, unless you just want to argue. It has nothing to do with being overly politically correct, it has to do with being educated enough to express oneself without needlessly insulting others. If it can be avoided, avoid it. What's so difficult about that?

    Now as to what we do when someone proves to be human and makes a slip of the tongue (or keyboard), well, I am not in favor of the death penalty, I think we point it out and move on without acting like someone shot your dog. But to defend the use of such terms? That's just stupid.
     
  6. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    I think its interesting to wonder if shuck and jive would have been used with a white fighter or a Latino fighter. I'm sure the writer didn't intend to slight Mayweather, but could have used a different term (defensive, crafty, evasive etc.) There are words that we use as sort of an invisible short-hand: "athletic" (read black) "meat and potatoes" (white) "disciplined" (white) "well-spoken" (black) "blue collar" (white)...feel free to add your own terms ... and when was the last time a white running back "jitterbugged" into an end zone?
     
  7. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    I don't have a problem with knowing what the roots of a word is. I do have a problem with this incessant need to pacify every whiner who is stuck in a time long ago.

    Further, why do we allow the whiners to frame the discussion and determine what is or isn't offensive?

    And finally, incidents like this and Imus -- people being outraged because of some obscure reference and association to Bo Jangles that 99 percent of the population doesn't make -- only serve to trivialize racism when it really happens.

    The reason there is no real dicussion about race in this country is because of this kind of nonsense. Nobody has to take a group's complaints seriously when they are constantly whining about being offended by every little phrase that has some sort root that was less than flattering.
     
  8. Frank_Ridgeway

    Frank_Ridgeway Well-Known Member

    You call it whining. But generally such people do not whine, they shout. You would like to frame them in wussy terms (whining) to belittle those with whom you disagree, but in fact that's inaccurate. I've never heard such a complainer whine. Over-the-top, out-of-proportion anger, perhaps. If you want to be accurate, usually the whiner is the accused trying to wriggle free of the situation.
     
  9. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    Call it what you want -- it is whining at loud decibles and it further retards the efforts of the people in this country to come to some sort of a consensus on issues of race.

    These obscure references to a different land and time are hopefully sooner than later going to become so mainstreamed --and the ones we are discussing here have -- that we can start to discuss some of the real issues of race in this country.
     
  10. Bruhman

    Bruhman Active Member

    The writer DIDN'T offend "the african-american community." He offended "several black readers who complained," according to the article. You can find several members of any "community" who are offended by virtually anything and everything.

    The two complainers quoted in the article sound ridiculous in asserting that "shucked and jived" is the equivalent of the N-word and hate mail. Hardly. As pointed out in the definition Acuna used, the term refers to "misleading or deceptive talk or behavior, as to give a false impression." Bomani is right in stating that Gutierrez's mistake isn't using the term, but using it improperly.

    One guy stated: "This is offensive to blacks" and "I'm personally offended." Well, I 'm black, and I wouldn't have thought twice upon reading the sentence (except for noticing the usage was a bit improper, though it fully conveyed the writer's meaning). Offense taken by the complaintant isn't shared by this corner.

    As others have pointed out, language and its meaning and usage changes over time. Just as every living thing - and language is very much alive - changes as it grows older. Though its origin is traced to a racial connotation, "shuck and jive" has become a mainstream cliche, applicable to anyone from Drew Rosenhaus to George Bush.

    I'm so sick and tired of folks jumping up and down over BULLSCRIT, when there are issue/targets far more worthy of such energy and outrage. It does more harm than good to continue pointing out trivialities, whilch results in more serious and substantive complaints getting lumped under "There they go again..."
     
  11. Frank_Ridgeway

    Frank_Ridgeway Well-Known Member

    No one would argue that there aren't more serious issues in race relations, but you can't be suggesting we simply ignore the less serious matters like this. What are we supposed to do when people complain, say, "Fuck you, why don't you worry about something important like education? Get a life." No, we apologize and explain ourselves, and if that isn't good enough for the complainers, then we say "fuck you," but in a nice way.
     
  12. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    I'm suggesting that this isn't a matter or an issue at all.

    I would suggest if you went through most of black America under the age of say 40 and asked them what images they get when you say shuck and jive --- the overwhelming response would be something to do with boxers moving around the ring. You would be hard pressed to find even a few that would say it is a racist term that conjurs up images of Bo Jangles dancing for white people.

    That doesn't make them ignorant or unenlightened, it means they've grown up in different era and that's OK too.
     
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