Should W-L for pitchers just be phased out entirely?

Because people understand wins and losses.

The vast majority of the time, the value of a pitcher can be measured by how many wins and losses they have.

The vast majority of the time, extra stats are rolled out to support a pitcher, who has a losing record, but probably shouldn't for a variety of reasons. Stats also come out when trying to compare and contrast two or more pitchers.

The reason why wins and losses have hung around for so long is because that measure is already the most elegant stat in baseball.

 

If someone wants to seize on it, fine, but reporters and team broadcasts and MLB in general should not be enabling it. People have been trained for decades that W-L is a primary indicator of pitcher effectiveness. It is not. It is, essentially, worthless (except as somewhat accurate shorthand - but not nearly as accurate as stats that instead measure the pitcher's effectiveness). People, to this day, cast their Cy Young ballots taking account of W-L record. And W-L record and Cy Young Awards end up playing into HOF votes, for example.

Jim Leyland doesn't seem to realize that W-L is not an accurate measure of a pitcher's value to his team. Why do you think Joe Six Pack Fan will realize it, given that it has been and currently is being listed first in a stat graphic for a pitcher - even relief pitchers!

 

Jim Leyland doesn't.

 

Dick, if the season ends today, who's your pick for AL Cy Young?

 

Worked with one in NJ who does that and who keeps Rickey Henderson out of the HoF for the worst reason of all-time.

 

Felix Hernandez.

 

Interesting. Ranks seventh in ERA+, second in ERA, second in WAR, seventh in WHIP, not really up there in CGs or SHOs.

 

Here's Felix:

Code:

                                                                                              
Year   Age  Tm Lg  W L  ERA  G GS GF CG SHO SV    IP   H  R ER HR BB  SO HBP WP  BF ERA+  WHIP
2013    27 SEA AL 12 6 2.47 26 26  0  0   0  0 178.2 159 56 49 12 38 182   2 10 709  149 1.103

Here's Max:

Code:

                                                                                                  
Year   Age  Tm Lg  W L W-L%  ERA  G GS GF CG SHO SV    IP   H  R ER HR BB  SO BK WP  BF ERA+  WHIP
2013    28 DET AL 18 1 .947 2.82 25 25  0  0   0  0 172.1 117 56 54 14 38 185  1  4 659  149 0.899

 

Another busy day in the legal offices, counselor?

 

Second in ERA, by 0.06.

First in IP.

Second in SO.

 

The ERA difference between him and Scherzer is almost fully explained by their home parks -- Detroit's ballpark factor is 105 and Seattle's is 90. Scherzer's ERA is a quarter-run better on the road. Don't know if they moved the fences in in Detroit or if it's a weather thing or what, but Comerica appears to have become something of a hitter's spot.

And he trails Scherzer in strikeouts despite being ahead in innings. Both are too close to put a whole lot of stock in any difference, though.

 

Never really understood why 4-5 pitchers going 6 or so innings need to "save" 5-7 pitchers going 3 or so innings.

Which makes ERA somewhat misleading, too, then, eh?

There's really no stat that can be isolated and doesn't depend on a host of other factors (run support, ballpark, climate, etc.).