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Running racism in America thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Scout, May 26, 2020.

  1. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

  2. WriteThinking

    WriteThinking Well-Known Member

    This is how I feel because, when does it end?

    The other problem I have with all this is in the choosing of what comes down, and what stays, etc. We can't, and probably shouldn't be, trying to change history, or the presentation of it, and statues and memorials, etc. are all about that.

    No one good or sane likes Hitler and what he did, or any other of a number of other monsters and their impacts on history, either. Are we going to close down, deface and destroy all reminders, sites and museums pertaining to those periods of time, too, because people were wronged, mistreated and not seen as equal by them and their ilk?
    Driftwood likes this.
  3. SoloFlyer

    SoloFlyer Well-Known Member

    Should be. Area also only accessible to NASCAR teams, NASCAR officials, track personnel, and safety crews. No fans.
    OscarMadison likes this.
  4. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    I like this reaction but also want someone to call out the perps for what they are, COWARDS.

    They don't show their faces and don't own up to it because they know then they'll have a heavy price to pay. No hide in the shadows, behind your hoods.
    OscarMadison likes this.
  5. PCLoadLetter

    PCLoadLetter Well-Known Member

    This isn't "changing history." This is eliminating celebrations of rotten people and daily reminders of the mistreatment of minorities. These aren't museums or historic sites we're talking about. They are statues designed to celebrate people who don't deserve it, or in the case of the Lincoln and Roosevelt statues are depicted in ways that are fairly awful.

    The answer to "when does it end?" is it ends when people start to care more about living Black people than they do about dead white people.
  6. Twirling Time

    Twirling Time Well-Known Member

    I hope this doesn’t end up being a Jussie Whatshisname deal. But it being a real thing is even worse.

    The best outcome would be that it was one of Bubba’s crew pulling a prank that went way wrong.
  7. Matt1735

    Matt1735 Well-Known Member

    No, that would be one of the worst outcomes. To think that someone thinks this can be a laughing matter is a huge problem.

    Despite all of the public posturing, we know there are rednecks and racists in NASCAR. That someone did this illustrates that. But if it was done as a joke, man, some people just don't get it.
  8. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    It’s only a prank if YOU have ever been reminded of how people wrongfully murdered your ancestors.

    Quit saying it’s a laughing matter and most importantly stop saying “can’t you take a joke?”
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That statue has been the subject of protests, conversation and offense since at least the 1970s, because of how the Native American and African American men on it are depicted. In the last 10 years or so, it has come up over and over again. The museum was already looking for ways to find another place for it when everything happening right now made it important all over again.

    Are you really suggesting that we should cling to something that is offensive and hurtful to a bunch of our fellow citizens, because you don't "want people to tear things up"?

    FWIW, they aren't tearing it up. They want to MOVE it from an incredibly prominent corner in Manhattan, in front of a world-class museum and on Central Park West.

    Our nation has a troubled past when it comes to mistreatment of certain groups of people. To the extent there are remnants of it left that offend people from those groups, and maybe even perpetuate the racial stereotypes that historically harmed those groups, isn't it the right thing to do to get rid of those remnants finally?

    That isn't being a "nazi" to me. You acknowledge your past. But why on earth would you want your public monuments to the past to continue to depict hurtful things?
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
    OscarMadison and Spartan Squad like this.
  10. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Huge Teddy fan. Huge. From childhood.

    Been to every National Park he had a hand in or on, and every one of the sites devoted to him, many times.

    Conducted a long-running correspondence with one of his biographers.

    And I've had to update and refine my feelings about him.

    I've also been going to this museum month in and month out for 58 years.

    That statue has to go. Or has to be completely reimagined and remade.

    Because the racist / colonialist "white man's burden" subtext of the thing as it is has been a sore point for years. How do you think a little kid registers an image like that?

    And to its credit, the museum has been very responsive in the past to cases where exhibitions have been racist or anti-historical in the same way. The famous Holden Caulfield war canoe, and the founding of New York diorama in the great hall being two good examples.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
  11. Mngwa

    Mngwa Well-Known Member

    it is that hard to remove the offensive statues? Did you look at that statue of TR in question? Easy call. Also, removing statue isn't changing history. One could argue that it's putting things in perspective. Why should we have public statues to those whose greatest legacy is pain? Or white supremacy? Or being a traitor? Also, hyperbole doesn't help and by implying that "sites and museums" are being defaced and destroyed is just that. Sites and museums in fact, whether it's a civil war battle site or some museum you never heard of, are exactly where this stuff belongs. I think that's the ultimate outcome.
    OscarMadison likes this.
  12. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    Why is the statue of TR an easy call on removal? He wasn’t a slave owner or trader. A symbol of American conquests? Human history is the history of conquests, with and without regard to race. Religion is more of a reason.

    the confederate statues are an easy call, they were outright traitors.

    the statues of Columbus are misguided, the real villain was (is) Christianity and in Columbus’ time, the Catholic Church. The missionaries were the ones who decimated the indigenous population with their convert or die policies. Columbus, Cortez, deGamma ... they had with them missionaries and priests who acted on Church orders. The Portuguese were the instigators of the Atlantic slave trade and did so with the approval of the church. Without the church’s literal and figurative blessing, the slave trade would never have progressed. And contrary to the popular myth of White raiders going into Africa and kidnapping people for slavery, the majority of slaves were sold by native tribes to the Europeans. The Bible was used at cover for god approved slavery. While Jesus cured the sick and even the dead, he never freed one slave. So the slavers had Jesus as a rationale.
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