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Rudy: one step closer to extinction

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by spnited, Aug 11, 2007.

Page 3 of 6
  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I'm sorry man, that makes absolutely no sense. It's like saying that Churchill shouldn't be judged on how he handled himself during WWII because you are judging him based on a circumstance. That's the point of leadership! It's how you handle yourself under duress.

    As I said, Giuliani wasn't Time's Person of the Year because he happened to be mayor that day. It was how he ACTED as mayor in the aftermath that earned him a reputation as a leader (I am not asking you to agree with this, but it IS how a lot of other people feel). What would you expect him to run on?
     
    The Big Ragu, Aug 12, 2007
    #25
  2. ADifferentOkie

    ADifferentOkie Guest

    I'll admit I haven't paid the most attention because there's not chance I've vote for anyone from that side of the aisle, but I haven't heard him talking about his record. I've heard him (and everyone else) talking about one specific day.
    How you act for one day does not make you ready to be president (though he probably did handle that day better than our current president).
    And how in the world do you bring Churchill into this discussion? I don't think he spent his time going, "The Nazis firebombed my country, so vote for me!"
     
    ADifferentOkie, Aug 12, 2007
    #26
  3. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    Nice post Ragu... I agree completely... But that won't stop there from being 100 more "This is the end for (insert name of republican here...) threads between now and the election... Of course if you thought the people on this site had any concept of how America will vote, the republicans would be beaten like McGovern/Mondale/Dukakis...

    I guarantee you this will be an incredibly tight election no matter who runs...
     
    Mizzougrad96, Aug 12, 2007
    #27
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Given your characterization of Giuliani if you someone didn't like Churchill, that is EXACTLY how you you would have been painting him.
     
    The Big Ragu, Aug 12, 2007
    #28
  5. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

    If Giuliani's the GOP nominee, it will be Democrats in a landslide victory. He's divisive, self-centered (ask Bill Bratton) and authoritarian, his personal behavior and ethics are despicable, and at this point the last things Americans want is another authoritarian GOP administration with questionable or worse ethics.

    Hell, after the Farmersville garbage thing Rudy might not even win a majority in upstate New York.
     
    2muchcoffeeman, Aug 12, 2007
    #29
  6. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    Ragu, you forgot the part where America's Mayor -- a lame-duck at the time of 9/11 -- tried to postpone the November 2001 mayoral elections for a year so he could "extend my term and finish the job of rebuilding the city."

    Not like he tried to turn 9/11 into political capital or anything.
     
    spnited, Aug 12, 2007
    #30
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Every poll between him and Hilary Clinton (the two front runners) has that race as a virtual tie. That's amazing given the Republicans and Bush's approval ratings right now.

    Your landslide prediction is wishful thinking, not a reasoned look at the situation.

    Giuliani got himself elected mayor of a city where Democrats outnumber Republicans by something like 6 to 1. This not a guy who loses by landslides. It hadn't happened in at least a century when he was elected. He's a skilled politician who resonates with most people a lot better than he does with you. He's quick on his feet, a much better speaker than Hilary Clinton and he has mean-spirited, but effective, political instincts that have served him well (this is unlike Hilary who has no instincts, but hires goons to do the mean-spirited things for her).

    Also, if you want to make ethics accusations, you had best be able to name tangible things and tell exactly how those things tie into Giuliani. Because the prosecutor who went after organized crime and cleaned up the Fulton Street Fish Market when there was no will in NYC because so many politicians were being greased, actually could run on his record of integrity (that by the way, was a tangible example). Again, it's what most other people see when they look at the guy.
     
    The Big Ragu, Aug 12, 2007
    #31
  8. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

    Cristyne Lategano. Judith Nathan. His failure to be a part of his children's lives since his divorce from Donna Hanover. His failure to even mention the existence of his children on his official biography. Any questions?

    His actions regarding the dissolution of his second marriage and his failure to attempt to be a father speak volumes about his personal ethics. You see a great leader? I see a walking piece of shit.
     
    2muchcoffeeman, Aug 12, 2007
    #32
  9. Lamar Mundane

    Lamar Mundane Member

    Give me an example of how Rudy's experience during 9-11 prepares him to run the military, set foreign policy or make competent appointments.

    THis is a man who was a steadying influence in a time of disaster. He was everywhere. He deserves credit for that. But, that few months of "America's Mayor" doesn't equal presidential capabilities.

    If you want to compare him to our resident Oval office genius, I'd have to give W credit for governing one of the largest states in the country. He might have given away his predecessors "surplus" but that experience is far greater than going on SNL and telling them it's okay to laugh again.

    Please nominate Rudy.
     
    Lamar Mundane, Aug 12, 2007
    #33
  10. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    I 've gone from being a big Rudy fan to souring on him. That said if given the choice I would still rather have him running the country instead of Hillary.

    He has run a very poor campaign so far. His wife Judith has done him no favors.

    He seems to be spending an awful lot of time hanging his hat on fact we should vote for him because he was at trade center. I liken it to Kerry telling us we should vote for him because of his war record.

    As a prosecutor and mayor Rudy has had some real accomplishments the should be highlighted.

    He played a major role in bringing down the mafia and also putting a lot of Wall St crooks in jail.

    When he was mayor he did great job cleaning up the mess that David Dinkins created.

    Here is an article in Village Voice that I think is very damaging to Rudy.

    http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0719,barrett,76566,2.html
     
    Boom_70, Aug 12, 2007
    #34
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Those are ethical problems? Most people consider them personal issues, not issues with the man's ethics. Did you support Bill Clinton?

    Just to to help make the distinction... In her 2000 Senate election, Hilary Clinton received 99 percent of the vote from New Square, NY, which is about 40 miles from NYC and is populated by about 7,000 Hasidic Jews. The Hasidic and Orthodox Jewish communities had been anti-Hilary Clinton in the run up to the election and other Orthodox Jewish communities didn't support her. Yet she received 99 percent of the vote from this town. Two months after the election, then President BILL CLINTON commuted the sentences of four Hasidic Jews from New Square, NY, who had been convicted of stealing tens of millions of dollars in federal education and housing subsidies. Those cuts in their prison sentences--from Washington D.C. by order of Hilary's husband--were granted over the strenuous objections of the prosecutor.

    The whole investigation never went anywhere--as they never do with the Clintons--but she received 99 percent of the vote in a community that months earlier had been mobilized to vote against her, and then two months after the election those commutations occurred. Most people who can smell a real ethical and criminal violation suspected a deal for clemency for votes. THAT would be an ethical problem. Not the fact that she may or may not have a shitty marriage or personal problems.
     
    The Big Ragu, Aug 12, 2007
    #35
  12. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Read the Voice article . Rudy has a major ethical problem based on fact that he accepted Yankee World Series rings.
     
    Boom_70, Aug 12, 2007
    #36
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