Roethlisberger: "He was raised with old-fashioned, middle-America values."

Haha. Have you ever picked up ONE bail of hay? I know the point you're trying to make, but it's not a good one. Values aside, not all workdays are created equal.

 

3-strand bale? Or 2-strand bale?

And you're now showing one of the Midwestern values with which most of us are too familiar: moral superiority.

 

You're funny. Were it not for moral superiority, this thread would have died a long time ago. Have fun making the donuts.

 

Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah.

Boom, you and I are usually on the same page on a lot of things.

But blasphemy right there.

 

Do you honestly think that farming is harder than fishing or logging or working construction? Do you honestly think it's more moral, or that it shows greater "values," than baking or running a store or driving a cab?

 

The kind of "values" that Klis seems to be referring to is less a value about respecting women to me than paternalism. In my world, a hotshot Manhattan male corporate lawyer who goes head-to-head in litigation with a hotshot Manhattan female corporate lawyer without blinking and treats her the same way he'd treat a male opponent is expressing perhaps even more respect for women than a Midwesterner who helps a delicate flower cross a puddle.

I'm thinking of the scene in "Mad Men" where Don Draper chided two men in an elevator for not removing their hats around a woman, while meanwhile whoring himself to half of the city behind his wife's back.

The moral is that gender relations are complicated.

 

Nope. But people can still take pride in it. John Mellencamp writes songs celebrating farming, Bruce Springsteen writes songs about working in the factory. Neither is wrong.

 

I do. Cab drivers blab on their cell phones in Kurdish or whatever when they are taking you places like strip joints. That's un-American, un-wholesome and un-family values.

Farmers do nothing but work hard, read the Bible and put bread on the table for all of America.

 

You must have missed my "values aside" comment," so no, I'm not making a value judgment on those differing jobs. But yes, farming is harder work than most. Can't speak to logging since I have no experience, but it's certainly harder than working construction.

 

Conceding the point that farming may be the hardest work there is (the fellas down at the foundry notwithstanding), why assume that hard work is somehow moral?

 

I don't think that "values" and "morals" are synonyms.

 

Though this thread is taking weird turns, I think that hard work is generally more "moral" because it demonstrates you are not trying to cut corners, scam, steal, lie or cheat to get by.

Plus you have less time and inclination to get in trouble.