Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Fireworks Celebrations

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

Don't know what happened to my reply, but I'll edit it back in...

Yes, there is anti-American rhetoric that won't go away, but it's not a viable basis for a system of government, so there would likely be a rejection of any sort of Islamic Theocracy that would come to power. Those tend to be embraced enough to gain power in areas where the anti-colonial sentiment is higher.

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

The problems in Libya I foresee aren't necessarily related to anti-Americanism, but rather to the possibility that Libyan society is so stunted by decades of erratic dictatorship that it will collapse into a former Yugoslavia in the 1990s style dystopia. In a sense, American casualties of the Iraq occupation were and are collateral damage in a huge civil war and sectarian bloodletting among Iraqis.

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

"Albeit without the awful toll of American blood, and far less American treasure, the US under President Obama's feckless, if now "triumphal" leadership, has extended the delusive utopian policy of his Republican predecessor-"Making the World Safe for Sharia?"-to Libya.

The salient feature of Libya's new draft constitution is Part 1, Article 1:

Islam is the Religion of the State, and the principal source of legislation is Islamic Jurisprudence (Sharia).

Once again, we appear to be witnessing a regional Muslim phenomenon which the prototype Algerian jihadists of the 1990s formulated with succinct candor:

Islamic state by the will of the people."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/08/libya_made_safe_for_sharia.html

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

Here is a link to the transitional constitution:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/62823350/Libya-Draft-Constitutional-Charter-for-the-Transitional-Stage

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

And the next line guarantees the rights of non-Moslems. We'll have to see how it plays out.

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

Wait, so is the right-wing talking point that Obama should have done more sooner to get Gaddafi out, or that we were all better off with letting Gaddafi do what he does?

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

Yikes, this guy reeks of our cold-war mentality: If they aren't for us, they are against us.

Where we've gotten in trouble in the past is understanding that the most important thing is allowing self-governance. That isn't necessarily always going to be a government we like, but it beats the effect of having a government THEY don't like and propping ourselves up as the blame for that government (see the Shah).

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

I think the right wing talking point will be (if it isn't already) that we should have both booted Gaddafi AND made sure that what followed would be an American puppet.

In other words, the same "you can have your cake and eat it too" mentality that politicians espouse to keep their cushy jobs in the short term but ultimately causes long-term harm to society.

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

I agree with you. I think this was one of those "be careful what you wish for" situations. Anyone that thought the rebels were westernized, American-loving boy scouts chanting "USA! USA!" while shooting at the bad guys was incredibly naive. But, yes, we should stay out of the nation-building quagmire that still has us stuck in Afghanistan.

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

And I'm not against us being in Afghanistan because we needed to go in there in the first place.

When you really break it down, our issues with the middle east started with Mossaddegh. We put the Shah back into power over a largely popular and, at one-point, democratically elected leader. The nationalization of oil was certainly anti-western, but England was not going to be left completely out. And, at the end of the day, Mossadegh was right in that so long as foreign interests controlled the oil, they would control and corrupt the government.

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

I am just waiting to see what emerges in Libya. The government doesn't have to be "pro-west," as long as it's pretty moderate and not dedicated towards our destruction because of Islam. The last thing we need, after toppling Mummar, is another Abnadinnerjacket over there, burning flags and seeking nuclear weapons.

 

Re: Reuters: Rebels Take Tripoli's Green Sq...Celebrations --Ghaddafi Son Arrested

From what we've seen so far, Carlton, the next Libyan government will be preoccupied with murdering each other, and so won't take too much interest in foreign policy.