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Reich: Higher Wages Aren't Coming Back, and Here's Why

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Riptide, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    They might tell me about when wages were declining and plenty of people who wanted to work couldn't find jobs?
     
  2. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    They would tell you "declining wages" were better than no wages, which many faced for long periods. And they would tell you they never "gave up" looking for work just because they couldn't find a job that met their inflated sense of worth. It was find work or the kids go hungry, so they found work. Any work. They would tell you there was no such thing as "discretionary income" (no entertainment choices, no vacations) because every penny went to food and shelter. Some Christmases there was no Santa Claus. "Leisure time" was for the wealthy only.

    How many people have you spoken with this week who fit that description?
     
  3. Riptide

    Riptide Well-Known Member

    So shut up and work two or three jobs, seven days a week?
     
  4. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    That's what many people had to do when we DID have a Depression.

    My argument is that this is not the environment the nation as a whole faces today. And that Ragu's characterization of our economy as such is grossly exaggerated. I am, however, willing to change my opinion on this if people can honestly state that many of their friends are living the life I described above.
     
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You're the one who brought the 1930s into it, and now are comparing the 1930s to today.

    In the 1930s, indeed, we weren't in the process of running up massive amounts of debt (which is the problem that is preventing a recovery), and partially using the proceeds to keep 20+ percent of the population on a food stamp program. Nor did we have extended unemployment benefits, blso being funded by that debt. So surely people felt the effects in a way that they aren't today -- there was no social safety net like the one we have today (with or without actually paying for it).

    If the point is that times were different in the 1930s, and that the magnitude (at times) of the economic malaise exceeded what we have felt since 2008, um OK. But I wasn't the one who compared the 1930s to today. If I posted about a flu epidemic would you tell me to talk to someone who lived through the bubonic plague and get indignant about it?

    I'd also point out that during the great depression, many people didn't understand the magnitude of what was happening, the way that history recorded it after the recovery in the 1940s and 1950s. And what we are experiencing right now is far from over. We are years into an economic downturn, and we never got a recovery -- let alone breakout momentum. We would likely be due for the next downturn in the cycle, even without how much of a mess the world's central banks have created. With all of the debt weighing down the world, and the addition of more debt being encouraged by a currency war going on (to avoid the pain of dealing with it). ... there is still time for this to reach the magnitude of the great depression. People in Spain or Greece or Italy would say it already has.
     
  6. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    You just called it an "economic downturn," which I believe to be 100 percent accurate.

    A few posts ago you called it a Depression, which I believe was a gross exaggeration. Thus, my bringing up the 1930s.

    Just call it what it is --- an economic downturn with troubling signs for any kind of recovery soon --- and quit with the needless hyperbole.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    We are in a depression -- the way people like Jim Rickards have been using the term for several years (and the way John Maynard Keynes did).

    Maybe this will help you understand why I said what I said (and which wasn't the point of my post). Please watch the video.

    Why the Global Depression Looks Nothing Like the 1930s
     
  8. Mr. Sunshine

    Mr. Sunshine Well-Known Member

    What is your personal work limit?
     
  9. Riptide

    Riptide Well-Known Member

    One job.
     
  10. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Do we really want the country to operate on an "eh, it's better than the 1930s" standard?

    How about a comparison to the 1950s through 1990s, when people worked plenty hard too but also had government support and collective bargaining power toward livable wages?
     
  11. Riptide

    Riptide Well-Known Member

    Those were the days, those days of profit sharing and solid pensions.
     
  12. exmediahack

    exmediahack Well-Known Member

    We're also about "two generations in" on American workers who have no real vision or plan for their lives but they have enough (cell phones, a big screen TV) to not want to make a dramatic change in their behavior, ambition or skill set.

    Everywhere I go, I see people where the "pilot light" is off.

    Maybe they're just beaten down from life. Maybe they're exhausted from what was a near-depression for those without college degrees. Maybe they're just idiots.

    For these workers, they cannot expect a raise unless they also offer more in the workplace and the marketplace.

    That's why it's so damn important to keep on top of technologies and efficiencies. If you make yourself valuable enough where your "WAR" is high enough, a smart employer will find a way to keep you. Turnover is expensive for important jobs.

    My benefit in the workplace is that I generally am more focused and more productive than all of my co-workers. From this statement, you can also deduct that I'm a bigger asshole, too. :)
     
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