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Reggie Bush ain't looking too clean

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by The Big Ragu, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    That's life, and I'm fine with that. But when you sign a letter of intent, you agree to a set of rules. You must abide by the same rules as everyone else, and one of those includes not accepting money from agents. If you do that, then you have forfeited your college eligibility. I don't feel one shred of remorse for someone who thinks he's above the rest, who believes the rules shouldn't apply to him.

    As for whoever showed bewilderment about how O.J. could keep his Heisman while Bush could lose his, there's a difference there -- no one ever proved that O.J. violated the amateurism clause that ensures that you're still not a pro.
  2. Layman

    Layman Active Member

    Dog, it's an admirable concept, but (IMHO) not realistic. I just don't see the educational community buying into the concept of mixing mercenary, professional athletes, with amateurs (for whatever that title is worth). More than anything it, would be too close to ceding control of the sport.

    Here's the rub, though. Even isolating this conversation to one sport (football), how many individuals are REALLY getting a raw deal here?? If you include all institutions who grant football scholarships, at ALL levels that actually distribute athletic grant-in-aids, how many individuals are we talking about??

    If you look at just Division 1-A (or whatever the heck we're supposed to call it), there are over 10,000 kids on full ride. Of those, what % are truly in the Reggie Bush "category"? Kids who are "locks" to make a million bucks from their ability, college experience or not. 100? Seems a bit high.....but I'll go with 100. Not many. As someone else posted earlier, based on my experience 99+% of these kids genuinely benefit from what the grant-in-aid brings to their lives.

    I guess I'd love to see some sort of minor league system set up. Not sure who's going to foot the bill (ok....I do. Nobody), but it's a nice thought. Dog, you're correct, it is the school who eventually gets the hammer in these situations. Take it from someone who's been at a school that "got the hammer", it sucks. Greatly.
  3. shotglass

    shotglass Guest

    There's the ultimate answer for anyone who believes Bush got his "money's worth" for his services.

    The more I look at situations like this, the more I think the guys in the suits are the ones who are wrong, and the 20-year-old athletes are the ones who are right.

    And before anyone suggests that we go back to the days when amateur sports were truly amateur ... be careful what you wish for. I think all of us enjoy the current climate a little too much, or else Division II and Division III college sports would be more popular than Division I-A sports.
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Oz, Not if you look at it this way: Signing a letter of intent is akin to signing a letter of extortion. You don't want to, but you've been left with no options.

    If you are as talented as Reggie Bush, and are thinking NFL from the minute you leave H.S., you have no options for getting there, other than signing on with the NCAA, which is going to exploit you until its partner, the NFL, is ready to let you through the pearly white gates.

    He knew millions are coming to him because he is a great athlete , and he was faced with a system that won't let him have the money (yet, his career could end at any minute with an injury.). That's bullshit. It's "go along with the ridiculous farce that you're a student-athlete, and tell everyone throwing money at you that you are too pure to accept it, even though others are making millions off your talent," or "Don't sign that letter of intent and don't go the NFL, where millions of dollars await you." It's a system where everyone gets what they want, except the guy with the actual talent, without whom there is no gravy train! Isn't that backward ass to you?

    It isn't right. Yeah, he knew the rules and he broke them. In a vacuum that sounds bad. But when you look at the rules (which only make sense in a warped NCAA world; he didn't do anything illegal or anything to cheat the game), they are exploitive and hypocritical. He didn't ask for special treatment that he hadn't earned. There were agents tripping all over themselves to get to him for a reason. He should be able to take what anyone with a brain would take.
  5. Layman

    Layman Active Member

    Oh, shaggy.....don't even get me started on the whole "poor student who can't even afford to go for a pizza after the game" myth. With access to Pell grants (it's an entitlement program folks....depending on the schools budgeted COA, it's tax free "folding cash" for MANY of our Saturday afternoon heroes....compliments of you, I and the American taxpayers), add-on state grants (if they choose to stay in-state....and it IS a choice), not too mention low interest loan programs (not for tuition, like most folks ....but to buy the X-Box 360), they're living a college experience that most of their fellow students can only dream of.

    Not a judgement...just the facts.
  6. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Your specific purchases are not available, legally at least.
  7. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    Mo Clarett and Mike Williams took on the NCAA, thought the system needed to be changed. Didn't happen because courts upheld it. And nowadays, Clarett and Williams are looking like they could have used a little more time in college.
  8. dog428

    dog428 Active Member

    Ah, but see, you're making my point for me. There would be so few of these kids that it would be unbelievably easy to set up a monitoring system for this sort of thing.

    Let's take Bush, for example. In the summer prior to his junior year, when agents and the runners of agents are all over him, why not just let him sign with someone? What you're doing instead is leaving this kid looking at a few grand a month on the table, then looking at his family living in a one-bedroom, borderline condemned home and being asked to decide between taking that money and helping his family or not taking it and following some dumbass rules to protect an institution that's making a shitpot of money off his talent.

    Let him sign. Make it clear that as soon as he signs with that agent, the scolly goes away and somebody's gonna have to pay the education bill. Oh, and force 'em to stay in school through at least their junior year. Hell, half of them are doing this anyway. If you just set up a decent system, at least you'll not be needlessly punishing the schools. Because punishing USC in this case is like punishing the guy who built the road where a drunk driver crashed into someone. It makes no sense. The school did nothing wrong.
  9. shotglass

    shotglass Guest

    There's part of the larger problem, too.

    College is NOT a cure-all for everyone in our society. College is NOT for everyone. There are some who will never get anything out of college, whether we like hearing it or not.

    And this applies if you're just talking about their athletic careers, too. There's no telling whether either would have benefitted from more collegiate seasoning.
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    They didn't take on the entire corrupt NCAA system. They took on a single NFL rule that wouldn't allow them in until a certain age.

    And are you really looking to twisted legal decisions to help you decide your beliefs on something that isn't twisted or complicated, at all--the right to earn money--for which American values typically fall on the side of "get what you can"?

    If anything, Mike Williams and Maurice Clarett's stories don't endorse the NCAA system. More people would make the case that if the NFL is going to restrict access like that, there should be a viable system in which guys like them can get paid what people are very willing to give them (remember, they are not doing anything illegal. They just want to take what others are tripping all over themselves to pay them), while they develop into NFL players.

    You mock Clarett and Williams for "looking like they could have used a little more time in college." Yet in another conversation, I'm sure you'd be the first to admit that a guy like Maurice Clarett is not college material, wouldn't have been able to gain admission into a place like Ohio State, if Ohio State weren't planning on riding him to millions of dollars of Bowl money. And he'd likely never chosen to go to Ohio State (or any college, probably), if it wasn't his only potential means to the NFL. I'm just saying, why not stop bullshitting ourselves? I can't understand why anyone argues with that and sticks the "student-athlete," "blessed to get their $200,000 education" BS.
  11. Pilot

    Pilot Well-Known Member

    Ragu -- You said USC needed Bush way more than Bush needed USC, but I think Mo. Clarett is evidence of otherwise.

    Maybe he was college material, maybe he wasn' t... ok, he wasn't, but I'm sure there are tons of guys that aren't and do use college to get to the NFL. Still, it can really help them and often does. Maybe if Clarett uses a little more sense as a sophomore being on the team makes him a higher pick as a junior and he doesn't blow his chances once he is drafted, or he is drafted higher and a team gives him more chances. We all though OSU needed Clarett way more than Clarett needed OSU too, but we might have been wrong.

    I guess at some point I got lost in what you're trying to say ... that there should be a football minor league? There are options. There were options for Clarett, weren't there? I guess I don't really remember, but couldn't he have played AFL or CFL? Sure they suck and wouldn't probably have been as good of experience as the Big 10, but he would have been making (some) money and wouldn't have been wasting his time in school. There are options that don't include college, I think, they just suck. Maybe we'll see some basketball players do that over the next few years and we'll see how well that works out. But from the evidence it would seem that we have (Clarett), college can help an athlete a hell of a lot outside the scholarship factor.

    Also, as far as the setting up a pay-for-play system in colleges go, I agree with the guy that said it would be just as corrupt as everything is now, and maybe even more so. That's like saying legalize drugs so people stop becoming criminals. Also, to really follow that theory, I think we would destroy any competitive balance. Reggie Bush would have to make more money because he brings in more money because his team wins more and has more fans and sells more hats and t-shirts. If the arguement is "pay the players because they're earning the university a lot of money" how is it any different to say "pay the best player more because he is earning the most?" Once you start paying them all different amounts, I can see all hell breaking out. Since Notre Dame will sell the most t-shirts and get the most TV money, they'll have to pay their players more. Since they'll pay their players more, they'll get the best players. At least now you can sell "you can be a star here, rather than a role player there" if you're at a smaller school, but when money's involved, I don't know how you can say that any longer. You can say "You'll be a star here and still not make as much money"
  12. Hey, if Reggie Bush (or any other NCAA athlete) thinks the rules about accepting cash/gifts is unfair, then the player can simply not play college. No one's forcing them to be an athlete -- and there are millions of other jobs out there. If they do want to be a football player, the CFL and Arena League takes 18 year olds. But if you do want to play in college, then you're making the choice to play at that level and you gotta follow the rules.
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