Ray Guy's best chance to make the Hall of Fame?

The difference is not nearly as dramatic among punters as it is among quarterbacks, or most other positions. A small difference in how they are evaluated doesn't come close to being the same thing as the changing of the rules to open up the passing game, for example, or the improvements in scouting.

 

Truly idiotic comparisons. The difference in quarterbacking from when Unitas and Starr played to now is much more significant than the difference in punting. I can't imagine either of you are so ignorant of the changes in the game for me to have to explain why.

 

You beat me to it.

 

The numbers for punting are absolutely influenced by the era just as with everything else. You have advanced training techniques, strength training etc. that a previous generation didn't have.

That said, Guy was a first-team All-Pro three times in his 14 seasons. I wasn't watching football yet when he was in his prime, but it does seem fairly revisionist to paint the picture of him as some dominant lifeforce.

 

And again, worth noting -- it's not like all of the punters with better numbers than Guy came later. They didn't. A large percentage played before him.

 

Definitely worth noting.

To be clear, I'm not saying the era doesn't make any difference. I'm saying it isn't nearly the difference some are trying to make it out to be and it is much less than pretty much every other position other than kicker.

 

The scoreboard at the Superdome will definitely vote for Guy.

 

One thing regarding Lechler, probably ultimately unrelated to the Ray Guy topic: But that 50-yard average had become such an obsession for him and the team that his punts often did not serve strategic purposes. When he finally got there, his gross avg was 51.1 but his net was 43.9 -- still tops in the league but with a much larger spread than most other punters. He also led the league in touchbacks and wasn't particularly good at inside-the-20s.

I can't find similar stats related to Guy or any of the other old dudes, but by the time Lechler hit that alleged plateau of 50-yard greatness, there were quite a few other punters arguably doing their jobs better.

 

Lechler also benefitted from playing for the Raiders when the offense getting past the 50 was a lot more rare than during the Guy era. Throw in the new turf which helps with bounces and footing - there are what, maybe seven natural turf fields left in the NFL?

 

I counted 21 punters, plus Bob Waterfield, who is tied for him with the same percentage with averages higher than Guy who played before him. Some of those guys only punted for 3 or 4 years, although, granted, in the 1940s and 50s, they also played another position, maybe even both ways, and got more beaten up.

Of those 21, I count five as guys who were primarily punters, who may have also doubled as kickers, but rarely, if ever played other positions, and who did it for 10 seasons or longer: Tommy Davis, Don Chandler, Jerrell Wilson, Bobby Joe Green, and Sam Baker.

Of those five, you can make an argument that Davis, Chandler and Wilson also belong in the Hall.

Davis was dominant, although he never was on a title-winning team. Chandler had a large number of excellent seasons, and was on four NFL title-winning teams, plus was in five other title games with the Giants in his 12 seasons. Wilson dominated in the late 60s, and was on the Chiefs' Super-Bowl winning team in '69.

If anything, if Guy doesn't deserve the Hall, then at least one of the three ahead of him do.

 

So did Kenny Stabler.

 

Guy was actually first-team all-pro six times -- consecutively from 1973-78 -- and that was followed by two second-team all-pro honors. So for the first eight years of that 14-year career, he was selected as one of the best two at his position.