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Quick question for my Jewish friends...and pretty much everyone else.

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by farmerjerome, Nov 3, 2010.

?

Offensive?

  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    29.2%
  2. No

    17 vote(s)
    70.8%
  1. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    I'm not Jewish -- or Hindu -- so take my opinion for what it's worth, but, put me in the camp that says it would be fine in a store that specialized in items from India, but is probably in bad taste in a non specialized store.

    If properly identified, I'd also be ok with it in a museum exhibit about Hindu family life.

    And look, I hate how PC everything has become. I like to point out to my friends that all kinds of terms could be found to be offensive. Paddy Wagon & Hooligan are derogatory terms. (Not that I care.)

    But to act likes Jewish people are looking for an excuse to be offended when they see a swastika exhibited is ridiculous.

    Jews weren't "treated poorly" or "discriminated against" in Nazi Germany. There was a determined effort to make the Jewish people extinct. This was an attempt at genocide and the swastika is the symbol of the regime that attempted it.

    So, please do not make light of the Holocaust by making poor comparisons to it. If certain things don't offend you, fine. But please don't expect someone who is Jewish to not be offended by a swastika.
     
  2. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    That's fine and understandable.

    My wife is Slavic. For every Jew killed by Hitler, 3.5 Slavs were killed. The only reason extermination of Slavs wasn't in the immediate plans was because there were so many of them, and Germany needed their slave labor . . . before they were to be exterminated, eventually, over a period of 25-30 years.

    She is currently making a belt, a small part of which incorporates a swastika shape. You see, its origins go far beyond just Hinduism. For Slavic people the symbol is mythological, the Sun god Svarog. She is well aware of what Hitler did to her people, to the Jews and to millions of others. But she's also not about to let the Nazis' corruption of that symbol render its history to oblivion . . . just because somebody might look at it and be offended because they are not educated about a symbol that in various forms is more than 4,000 years old.

    As I said before, there are 7 billion people on this planet, people who see and interpret things a little differently. Nobody should go out of their way to offend anyone. But likewise, people should not have to shy away from things they perceive as normal or that they see some beauty in just because someone else somewhere else may be offended.
     
  3. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    You're not going to get an argument from me.

    Using the symbol in the way you describe makes perfect sense to me. It has meaning to her and relates to her heritage.
     
  4. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    Not saying you're wrong, but never heard that. Where did you get the number from?
     
  5. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    There was some overlap because, of course, 2.4 million Slavs were also Jewish Holocaust victims.

    But about 26.6 million Slavs were killed during WWII. In addition to the Holocaust deaths, 15.1 million were civilian deaths, and 8.8 million were military.

    Just a staggering human loss at every level no matter how you slice it.
     
  6. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    Are you counting the military deaths?
     
  7. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    Of course: They're people. They were attacked. And they died. On a scale far greater than any other nation's military.

    But almost twice as many civilians died. The toll inflicted on those people is one of the most underrated (in the West) aspects of the war. As is most of what happened on the Eastern front (where 70% of the fighting and dying occured).
     
  8. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    OK, but it does explain why I would not have heard of it.
     
  9. Buck

    Buck Well-Known Member

    Are you counting all people of Slavic extraction? The Slavs are a pretty widely dispersed ethnic group in Eastern Europe.
    Or are you counting people just within Yugoslavia, not all of whom were actually Slavs?
     
  10. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    All of them.
     
  11. WriteThinking

    WriteThinking Well-Known Member

    Well, there are a lot of dumb people out there.

    For that matter, there are also a lot of smart people who, just maybe, never took a World Religions class, or had any substantial exposure to Hinduism -- which, let's be honest, is what it would take for most average persons to recognize that this was a major religious symbol, and not a Nazi swastika.

    At first glance, and without context, the symbol does look like a swastika. There is no getting around that, and to think that people are just being "dumb" or bigoted if they are offended by it is, well, dumb.

    Even the argument that signs mean different things to different people doesn't really work in a case such as this, where the meaning of a symbol could, legitimately, be SO widely misread and misinterpreted.

    To reference BTExpress's discussion of his wife's understanding and pointed use of the symbol: He's right in what he says, and it certainly makes sense, but...that is precisely because her situation, and his explanation, provide some all-important context.

    In this case, context is everything.
     
  12. bydesign77

    bydesign77 Active Member

    I never took world religion classes and know little about Hindu.

    Yet I knew the difference.

    Because I like to read and educate myself on subjects and not immediately cry racism or offensive or whatever when these things happen.
     
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