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Question about Steve Bartman

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by sirvaliantbrown, Oct 6, 2009.

  1. JR

    JR Well-Known Member


    It was a passed ball.

    Gedman should have blocked it

    The real villain in the Game Six clusterfuck was Calvin Schiraldi.

    He came in with a two run lead, got two outs and then shit the bed.

    If you look at the game film, he was a deer caught in the headlights after the singles by Carter and Mitchell. You fucking knew Knight was going to get a hit.

    I taped that game and have watched the 10th inning a dozen times.

    Oh, and Boston choked in game seven.
     
  2. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    Oh, bull. That's a fabricated justification for self-absorbed Cubs fans who still want to place a modicum of blame on some guy who bought a freaking ticket to the game.

    50 percent of people in the stands go after any foul ball they can reasonably get their hands on, because it's a thrill to catch a foul ball in a major league game. The other 50 percent are ducking out of the way. That's it.

    There is NO rule, unwritten or otherwise, that says a fan should "know" to get out of the way when he's sitting in the front row and it might possibly help his team if a fielder can make an improbable catch on a ball heading into the stands. That's stupid, and a completely unreasonable expectation to put on anyone who is not participating in the game.

    Bartman deserves NO blame whatsoever for the Cubs blowing a multi-freaking-run lead with 6 outs to go. That's ludicrous.
     
  3. LWillhite

    LWillhite Member

    Just checked on baseball-reference.com. Miggy Cabrera hit the Alex Gonzalez E-6 ball.

    Other nuggets from hitting that web site:
    1) The Marlins didn't spend a single day in first place of the NL East that year, but won the whole stinkin' thing.
    2) When the Marlins started the eighth inning of Game 6 trailing 3-0, the Cubs' win expectancy was 95 percent.
    3) Juan Pierre's 1-out double dropped it to 92 percent.
    3) After the Bartman incident, Luis Castillo drew a walk to give the Marlins runners on first and third with 1 out. The Cubs' win expectancy was still 86 percent.
    4) After I-Rod's RBI single and Gonzalez' E-6 loaded the bases, the Cubs' win expectancy was still 68 percent.
    5) The odds didn't swing to the Marlins' favor until Derrek Lee followed up with the game-tying 2-run double that chased Prior.
    6) By the time the Marlins finished that 8-run inning, they were 98 percent favorites to win.

    7) If everything happened exactly as it played out -- except that Alou catches the "Bartman Ball" -- the Cubs either have a 3-2 lead or a 3-3 tie going into the bottom of the eighth. The discrepancy depends on whether you think a 20-year-old Miggy Cabrera (a much skinnier dude then) scores from first on Lee's double with two outs.
     
  4. Sea Bass

    Sea Bass Well-Known Member

    Anybody have footage of them blowing up the Steve Bartman ball at some bar in Chicago? I've been looking for it (not tirelessly, mind you) but haven't found it. I remember thinking it was hilarious at the time.
     
  5. Some Guy

    Some Guy Active Member

    Well, I would have known to get the hell out of the way. Cubs would have been better served to give me Bartman's seat.
     
  6. Some Guy

    Some Guy Active Member

    Well, no. Maybe he has a heart attack before he gets there. Maybe a sniper perched on one of the Wrigleyville rooftops guns him down. Maybe Jeffrey Maier pushes Bartman out of the way and knocks the ball away himself. We'll never know, but that's kind of beside the point.

    Look, it's not right to villfy Bartman. I know that. There were 100 other things the Cubs could have done to win that game and that series despite that play.

    But to act as if that play had nothing to do with it is a pretty disingenuous form of revisionist history. Because Bartman DID interfere with what was otherwise a fairly routine play for a Major League outfielder, and he DID cost the Cubs an out.
     
  7. steveu

    steveu Well-Known Member

    Yet there is a reason why the PA announcer always says some form of "Never interfere with a ball in play" before every game. Fans who do this are subject to arrest, and they should be. If a ball is in play, you DON'T GO AFTER IT.

    That said, I echo everyone's comments about Game 6. The Cubs could have won Game 7 but did not. The Cards could have won Game 7 in 1985 after Denkinger's infamous blown call but did not.

    One more thing, and it's kind of off topic: What the fuck is CB Bucknor doing working a postseason series? That guy doesn't even deserve a uniform in the regular season.
     
  8. Shaggy

    Shaggy Guest

    It wasn't in play. It was out of play. Moises Alou was entering fan territory to try and catch the ball. Bartman didn't break a single rule.
     
  9. kingcreole

    kingcreole Active Member

    You are correct. Had Bartman interfered, the batter would have been called out. So long as the ball is not hovering over the field of play, any fan has every right to go for it. Just like Bartman and the other fans who were lunging at the ball.
     
  10. kingcreole

    kingcreole Active Member

    No he didn't cost the Cubs an out. You don't know Alou would have caught the ball and Bartman did nothing wrong.

    You sound just like a Cardinal fan bitching about Don Denkinger.
     
  11. Some Guy

    Some Guy Active Member

    If the stands are empty, that's a pretty routine play. I'm not buying the "you don't know Alou wouldn't have caught it" line. I mean, maybe Armageddon happens while the ball is still in flight and the world ends before Alou has a chance to make the play.

    In that case, I guess Bartman is off the hook.

    I'm just saying, if I were Bartman, I would have known to back off. I figured most people would, too. But apparently, I'm some sort of know-it-all super fan.
     
  12. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    How many foul balls have you caught in your life, Some Guy?

    You really think you'd have the presence of mind, when a fly ball's coming toward you, to think, "Hmm, the fielder has a chance to make a play; I better back off" (of course, where do you go if there's people on either side of you, presumably some of whom are going after the ball, as well; and seats barring you from doing anything but leaning backward, but I digress)?

    If so, then yes, you're a super fan. But it's ludicrous to expect anyone else to think that way.

    And, no, it's not a routine play. It's a very, very good play if Alou reaches into the stands to catch it -- which he would have had to do on that play -- but it's not routine, even for a major leaguer.
     
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