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Q: Are schools safe? TV station: Let's get one locked down and find out

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by Rusty Shackleford, Jan 18, 2014.

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  1. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    What if I walked into a newsroom, asked to use the bathroom but went straight to the sports editors or publishers office? What if I did it with malice?

    What if you let someone into your house to use the downstairs bathroom but they went straight for the upstairs master bedroom?

    You guys are looking for a loophole in verbiage when in the real world your actions would get you into serious trouble.
     
    93Devil, Feb 13, 2014
    #37
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I am not attacking you. I am responding to what you keep posting. I think you are incorrect. I'm happy to be corrected if I am wrong, but you are not telling me WHAT law that reporter broke and could be prosecuted for.

    You just said: "It would be up to the school division to press charges if you if you are removed, but they have the right to."

    What does that mean? The reporter wasn't asked to leave. ... and he wasn't removed from the school.

    But take to a different situation. Someone walks into a school. A security guard escorts the person from the school.

    WHAT can the school press charges for -- the way you just said?

    The school has no grounds to press charges, if I am guessing correctly. They can issue him a warning saying, "You are not allowed here, and if you come back, we will call the police."

    But unless you are asked to leave and have refused, tell me specifically what law you have broken?

    Maybe it exists, but what you have said doesn't sound like it could possibly be a law anywhere because it is vague.
     
    The Big Ragu, Feb 13, 2014
    #38
  3. PCLoadLetter

    PCLoadLetter Well-Known Member

    I'm not looking for a loophole. I am saying I have had trespassing law explained to me by a lawyer specializing in issues for journalists, and Ragu's interpretation is essentially the same.

    Sorry that upsets you.
     
    PCLoadLetter, Feb 13, 2014
    #39
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Loopholes? Maybe I am not following this thread correctly.

    You said the reporter could be up on charges for trespassing. I wondered how what he did is trespassing. That isn't "looking for a loophole."

    In fact, you just created a bunch of hypotheticals that have nothing to do with this reporter -- the guy you are telling us can be prosecuted for something.

    You also introduced "with malice."

    Again, I am asking because I don't know the intricacies of criminal law. So I don't know what the elements of criminal trespass are. But what is "with malice"? He asked someone for directions to a bathroom and then went in the other direction. I don't know how you legally define "malice" -- if that is actually a standard anywhere and not something you are making up -- but why is that malicious?

    If you want to take a jump to the reporter getting caught walking out with a skid full of computers or having a concealed weapon or something like that, sure. Those things would be malicious, because he'd be breaking the law. But none of that happened.
     
    The Big Ragu, Feb 13, 2014
    #40
  5. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Was your conversation with the lawyer expressly about schools? Because as you know from photography issues, they function different than other buildings.
     
    93Devil, Feb 13, 2014
    #41
  6. JRoyal

    JRoyal Well-Known Member

    Not sure how other states handle it, but here's a link to Florida's law: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String&URL=0800-0899/0810/Sections/0810.097.html

    A quick Google search brought up several other states with specific school trespass laws. In the case of Florida, anyone who doesn't have legitimate business at the school and enters the property is guilty of misdemeanor trespassing. I know in the case of a couple of the other statutes, it doesn't become trespassing until you're asked to leave and don't.
     
    JRoyal, Feb 13, 2014
    #42
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Regarding that Florida Statue you linked to. ... You are guilty of that misdemeanor trespass, according to the statute, under two scenarios. If you have no legitimate business on the property or if the principal (or his or her designee) told you to leave and you didn't.

    This reporter wouldn't have been guilty of misdemeanor trespassing (it's a $500 fine) if it had been in Florida.

    1) He asked to see the head of security and left his phone number for the person to get in touch with him.
    2) Nobody asked him to leave, and he didn't refuse after being asked to leave.

    The reporter is a jackass. But unless there is a statue against being a jackass. ...
     
    The Big Ragu, Feb 13, 2014
    #43
  8. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    http://www.wgrz.com/story/news/local/2014/02/06/man-charged-with-trespassing-at-local-high-school/5257567/

    http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Gov-Malloys-Nephew-Arrested-in-Stamford-237242131.html

    http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article140.htm

    S 140.15 Criminal trespass in the second degree.
    A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the second degree when:
    1. he or she knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in a dwelling;

    5. "Enter or remain unlawfully." A person "enters or remains
    unlawfully" in or upon premises when he is not licensed or privileged to
    do so. A person who, regardless of his intent, enters or remains in or
    upon premises which are at the time open to the public does so with
    license and privilege unless he defies a lawful order not to enter or
    remain, personally communicated to him by the owner of such premises or
    other authorized person. A license or privilege to enter or remain in a
    building which is only partly open to the public is not a license or
    privilege to enter or remain in that part of the building which is not
    open to the public.     A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and
    apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed
    in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and
    privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to
    him by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such
    notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner. A person who enters
    or remains in or about a school building without written permission from
    someone authorized to issue such permission or without a legitimate
    reason which includes a relationship involving custody of or
    responsibility for a pupil or student enrolled in the school or without
    legitimate business or a purpose relating to the operation of the school
    does so without license and privilege.


    If you are granted access to bathroom, that is open to the public. The halls that classrooms are located or where the children congregate are not open to the public without permission from the school. The original posting stated that a man wanted to use the bathroom, but then went and fucked around the school. It seems to be a class A misdemeanor or class B misdemeanor in New York. Either way, you're getting arrested and the courts can sort it out.
     
    93Devil, Feb 13, 2014
    #44
  9. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    IIRC, he asked to see the head of security, left the office without telling antone and then went and walked around the school.
     
    93Devil, Feb 13, 2014
    #45
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That isn't true.

    Here is the TV station's website, with their report.

    http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/01/16/newschannel-5-statement-school-safety/4531859/

    What they say: They followed each district's written security policies. They attempted to enter the schools the way anyone else from the public would. The reporter was instructed to go straight to the main office and provide his name if asked. In four schools, there were buzzers and intercoms and/or a person stationed at the front door.

    At the high school, there was just an open front door. He went in and began trying to find to the office. After three minutes, he asked a teacher where to find the office. The teacher didn't question him. She pointed him down the hall. In the office, he identified himself by name and said he wanted to talk to someone in security. The secretary called, but no one answered. So he left his name and cell phone #. Before leaving he asked where the bathroom was. He wanted to see if anyone would escort him. The woman just pointed him in the direction. He never went to the bathroom. He immediately left the building the same way he had entered.
     
    The Big Ragu, Feb 13, 2014
    #46
  11. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/columns/bill-mcclellan/mcclellan-ksdk-s-school-scare-lures-viewers-but-loses-the/article_fd5dae3f-25f7-5b85-a7cf-472f68e61f39.html?mobile_touch=true

    Start reading at the fifth paragraph.
     
    93Devil, Feb 13, 2014
    #47
  12. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Why is this version of events not attributed to anyone?

    Why is there not a quote from someone? Why don't they tell me who says he "headed in another direction"?
     
    YankeeFan, Feb 13, 2014
    #48
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