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President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Moderator1, Nov 12, 2016.

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  1. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member


    I feel like you read right past the part where it said, "according to police."
     
  2. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I'm not defending it, but let's not pretend he's the first (or will be the last) to do something like that.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, when you are president you have a bully pulpit. He won't be the first president to take advantage of it. At one point, you had a president scolding Bethlehem Steel about their prices and their executives earning too much. You have senators today (Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren) who avail themselves of the bully pulpit to demonize pharamaceutical companies and banks about their pricing. Many of the people bent out of shape over Trump right now, though, would never register a peep in those cases.

    There is a difference too, though, even if they are both crude forms populism -- Elizabeth Warren, Donald Trump. In the case of Boeing, Trump isn't just looking at a company and deciding they charge too much (in his opinion) to score votes and the soundbite. He is looking at a company the government is actually transacting with for his populist appeal. At least he's directly involved in the transaction and is attempting to negotiate.

    Also, in the case of Sanders and Warren, there is always a threat that they are going to pass legislation that fucks with companies they have demonized. And they have tried to. Maybe that is Trump's plan. To try to advance legislation that puts price controls on things. But until that is really an implicit threat, really, that was just someone who has negotiating leverage due to a serious bully pulpit. ... trying to use the leverage he has. That is actually exactly how a free market operates.
     
  4. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Nixon imposed wage and price controls in 1971. That's capping everybody. It was regarded as a big deal, but hardly a scandal. In truth, it was kind of popular.
     
  5. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Would you like to show me where the police ever said Brown was fleeing with his hands up when he was shot?

    What police official ever said that?

    That addition makes it MORE fake. Kohn gave her opinion, and presented it as fact, using a fake confirmation from the police.
     
  6. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    PS: Back in the '60s and '70s, Presidents bitching about the actions of specific industries and companies had a name. It was called "jawboning." It was seen as a standard operating procedure and what's more, regarded as a very ineffective leadership tool. Trump's going to do lots of unprecedented things and lots of harmful things. Getting in a lather over relatively trivial words or deeds by him is not helpful to public discourse nor your own blood pressure.
     
  7. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    And, btw, #PizzaGate was mostly spread on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Reddit and 4Chan. These aren't exactly "fake news" sites.

    Sure, some fake news sites got in on it, but the vast majority of folks who were exposed to it, saw it on sites owned/run by some of the biggest tech/media companies in the country.
     
  8. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    That's like blaming the TV because you watched your NFL team lose.
     
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I was very young in 1971. So it wasn't a scandal to me -- but only because it didn't cut into Sesame Street. Others I know who are older than me? It went BEYOND a scandal. And the worst of what Nixon brought led to the disastrous results that price controls always bring on -- shortages, a spillover effect to other areas of the economy, and a drag on economic growth, etc.

    But Nixon is a good parallel. The Wall Street Journal had something on the opinion page a few days ago (can't remember exactly which day) making the comparison. Nixon was non-ideological and all over the place, too. So he disoriented Republicans at the time whose rhetoric claimed to believe in free markets. It's why when he came in with wage and price controls and he created the EPA they didn't fight him hard enough. And we paid for the worst of what Nixon did. In the case of Trump, they were suggesting that Republicans should support things that they think fit the typical "pro growth" republican agendas, but when he veers off into the big-government populism or shake-downs of companies so he can claim political glory fight him -- because if that becomes the norm, our economy will pay the price.
     
  10. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Nixon had political support for wage/price controls because the public was frightened by inflation. For the same reason, voters stuck by Reagan despite the 1981-1982 recession. Trump's situation is different because he is inheriting relatively (please note adverb) benign economic conditions. Voters, including a significant percentage of his own voters, may be less supportive of upsetting applecarts on a regular basis.
     
  11. Hermes

    Hermes Well-Known Member

    Damn that EPA. Damn it hell!
     
  12. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    The argument seems to be that these "fake news" sites are a/the problem.They need to be identified, driven down in search results, cut off from Google ads, etc.

    But, thats not how the story spread.
     
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