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Praise the Lord...and beat the shit out of the gay kid

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by terrier, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Much of the moralizing on this thread is silly. This law (or this exemption) is absolutely NOT intended to make it legal for you to "beat the shit out of the gay (etc.) kid" simply because you have a religious aversion to his/her orientation. Rather, it prevents the state from bringing you up on bullying charges simply because you stated a sincerely held religious belief. Indeed, the logical leap -- exemption for stating religous beliefs = explicit authorization to cause harm -- underpinning much of the moralizing here make me not surprised that someone might consider such an exemption to be necessary.
     
  2. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    It's intended to let the kids of the wingnut bible-thumpers spew bigotry (and maybe take action) against anybody they want as long as they can argue that they (or somebody else, see list above) have a sincere religious or moral belief that it's OK to do so.

    The state of Michigan has a very strong cadre of fundie Jeebus-people. They don't like the evull godless guvvmint telling them what they can or cannot do.
     
  3. Mystery Meat II

    Mystery Meat II Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  4. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm sure you're very sincere.
     
  5. Mystery Meat II

    Mystery Meat II Well-Known Member

    You don't see the problem with calling a group of people "wingnut bible-thumpers" and then decrying bigotry in the same breath? F'real?
     
  6. Bob Cook

    Bob Cook Active Member

    Hey, he's sincere, and he didn't do it on school grounds, so he's OK.

    Look, the big problem with the bill is this: its need to exist. I support the idea of trying not to quash all religious beliefs as a part of the bill in theory, but in practice it's well-established that fundamentalist Christian groups have fought anti-bullying measures (not just in legislatures, but at schools) because they're afraid it will lead to gay acceptance, and we just can't have that.
     
  7. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    This seems right as far as bullying only refers to physical harm, but that isn't what bullying means in schools. "Sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me" is not the way things run anymore. Say the inevitable happens and some eighth-grader tells another, in front of a hundred people in the cafeteria, "you're going to hell, f----t." That is clearly bullying under current school guidelines. Yet the offender also came about that belief by virtue of his religion. With this law, doesn't he get the religious exemption?
     
  8. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    It is my personal belief that the world would be a better place if organized religion, all of them, were outlawed. This is impractical. But society has a vested interest in preventing antisocial behavior, which bullying is, no matter what the motivation. Maybe the gay kid who snaps should do so on a field trip to the state house.
     
  9. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    "You're going to hell, faggot" is bullying.

    Walking up to a homosexual peer and telling them your religion believes they are wrong for who they are is inappropriate. Whether it counts as bullying or not depends heavily on the context. If a 7-year-old did it because of what they heard at home, they need an explanation about boundaries more than they need to be labeled a bully. If a 15-year-old does it in an intimidating way, it's bullying.

    What if the issue comes up during a conversation in a non-hostile way, and you simply state that your interpretation of your religion says that homosexuality is a sin? If a homosexual student hears you, is it then bullying?

    I have no idea how to codify these into laws, and that speaks to one of the reasons I'm uncomfortable with the broad criminalization of bullying. An effective anti-bullying campaign begins in curriculum at a young age, and it's as effective as the school staff's determination to enforce it. Throwing the book at teenage offenders feels good, but it probably doesn't do much to stop bullying, and you get into way too many gray areas.
     
  10. Bob Cook

    Bob Cook Active Member

    No, that would be a school function, so he would be in trouble under the law. He'd have to find someplace informal.
     
  11. dixiehack

    dixiehack Well-Known Member

    Westboro Baptist just got a woody, and now they have to picket themselves.
     
  12. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    I think you have to do a few things that will keep the intent of protecting churches while protecting individuals from harassment while at schools. First, you define the law applies to places of education -- schools and the like -- or through non-religious social gatherings or forums. Second you officials must find that there was either a pattern of harassment or clear intent of harassment. Make sure those who must dole out the punishment at least have the option to distinguish between someone saying "my church believes homosexuality is wrong" or 1 Corinthians says ... and "you f****t are going to hell." I believe what the legislature was trying to do was make sure churches couldn't be considered bullies for quoting a religious text. There needs to be some sort of Justice Stewart's "I know it when I see it" application here.
    I think we can agree there is a clear line between discussing a religious point and tormenting a kid to the point he kills himself.
     
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