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NYTimes Editorial Board Calls for Education Reform

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by YankeeFan, Dec 2, 2013.

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  1. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Not to mention most of 'em don't wanna pay no taxes for nothin'.
     
  2. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    You're right that I shouldn't make such broad statements (ask questions).

    But, let's be real. The Durham program is limited to three elementary and two middle schools. And, parents can't choose them. The students are just assigned to them.

    And, they give them four, three week vacations. Now, this might help with retention, as the breaks are shorter than the normal summer break, but it defeats the purpose of getting the kids more school days. They're still getting 12 weeks of vacation every year.

    Milwaukee's is even funnier. They still get six weeks off in the summer. Then they get three weeks off at Christmas/New Year's. And, they get two weeks off in April and October. So, they're at 13 weeks of vacation.

    How about a schedule with six about six weeks of vacation total? Why can't we give them three weeks off in the summer, as well as a Spring break and and a week or two off at Christmas/New Year's?

    That's still more than anyone else gets, and it might actually make a difference.
     
  3. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    Bob, my proposal is to get some kids out of the warehouse. You can't criticize it for leaving some kids behind, if the alternative is to leave them all behind.

    The poor who kids are willing, and who have committed parents, do deserve better. Let's get these kids around other similar kids. Maybe they won't get made fun off for trying, for asking questions, for reading, or for "acting white".

    Maybe, the kids and parents left behind will decide they want more and will decide to step up, and demand more, in return for a commitment from them.
     
  4. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Sounds great. Have fun giving the teachers seven weeks of additional pay, as well as reducing the certification requirements that they need the time to actually work on.
     
  5. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    You guys know that teachers aren't the only professionals required to keep their certifications current, right?

    All kinds of professions, from lawyers, to flight attendants, to personal trainers are required to take continuing education classes, and or recurrent training. They get it done without 12 -- or even 6 -- weeks of vacation. (OK, flight attendants get a ton of time off.)

    There's no reason to reduce the certification requirements in order to reduce the vacation time.
     
  6. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Why would they need seven weeks of additional pay? They're off the same amount of time or very close to it.
     
  7. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    I think he means if they cut back their total vacation, as I proposed.

    And, I think they can/should be paid more. But, in return, the job needs to be more like every other white collar job they want to be compared to.

    They need to be evaluated. They need to put in longer hours each day. They might need to teach larger classes. They need to get results.
     
  8. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    They might need larger classes, but they need to get results? I'm not sure which is worse, your unrealistic ideas regarding what goes into being a teacher or your willingness to disenfranchise kids in struggling school districts because their parents don't help them enough.
     
  9. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    And in many cases, even when the ideas are sound, the implementation is so piss-poor that it makes a complete mess of things.

    That is what is going on in New York right now. For example, the state used new standardized tests based on the Common Core standards for students in grades 3-8 this past spring. One small problem. The schools didn't have the new standards to teach from until this year, so kids were being tested on things they had not been taught yet. Also, the tests were much longer than the previous ones, adding to the difficulty.

    So what happened? The scores went in the toilet. Putting aside accusations that the state education department played games with the numbers, about 32 percent of students statewide tested at proficient or above in both math and English, a huge drop from previous years.

    Then the state was late getting the individual student results out, leaving parents less informed and making it harder for the schools to prepare. More students testing below proficient means more students getting some kind of special help, something that needs to be planned for. The new curriculum is more challenging, which in theory is a good thing, but if you roll it out all at once, you've got kids being taught lessons in second grade based on what the new standards require them to have learned in first grade. But they didn't have the new standards when they were in first grade, so they are behind.

    At the same time, schools started new evaluations for teachers and building principals, so districts were dealing with implementing those as well as the new curriculum at the same time.

    The result? Very frustrated teachers and parents and a lot more kids struggling in school. I've heard this story time and again from teachers, parents, administrators and students. The opinions on the Common Core are mixed, but the opinions on the implementation of it are nearly unanimous. The state dropped the ball big time.
     
  10. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    What's wrong with this? If you want more money, you should expect more to be expected from you. Companies pay for raises with gains in productivity. Teachers can and should be asked to be more productive in return for greater pay.

    This hasn't been done in the past, so it seems radical. It's not radical. It's how the rest of the word works. What's radical is giving out a raise and not asking for something in return.



    The current system disenfranchises all the kids in struggling school districts. Why is it wrong to try to help the kids most likely to benefit from the help?
     
  11. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Translation: You want to throw out the kids from the worst circumstances regardless of their own merits. This further demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of how a public school system is supposed to work. You don't quit on kids like that, especially not for things beyond their control, such as their parents. It is illegal and immoral and thankfully, even the people in our currently flawed education system know better.

    And to your question about asking for better results with larger class sizes, again, I refer to your ignorance regarding the realities of teaching. Larger class sizes hurt student performance no matter how skilled the teacher might be. If you can't even understand that, you have no business even taking part in a discussion about education.
     
  12. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    Seriously, this thread could have ended with this post.
     
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