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Not since Ali unmasked Foreman in Zaire...Telander knocks out Mariotti

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by jason_whitlock, Jun 26, 2006.

  1. hondo

    hondo Well-Known Member

    Yo, Geno Mariotti...you raised a wuss. ESPN should cut him from around the horn for his clear lack of nads.

    When Royko drilled Daley or some crooked councilman, you can bet your ass he made himself available the next day. I think any politician worth his salt knew where to find the Billy Goat Tavern if he wanted to find Royko.
  2. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    This is like the quoteless Elvis Grbac piece to me.

    The resounding praise makes me think of a friend of mine, acting like he was actually getting Dennis Miller 15 years ago.

    He understood that Nebuchadnezzar reference, his head-bobbing implied.

    Meanwhile he had never been within an area code of an Ancient World Cultures class....

  3. novelist_wannabe

    novelist_wannabe Well-Known Member

    I get the subtlety thing, OK? And maybe Telander chose to go that way because, after all, he was excoriating not only a peer, but a coworker. A vitriol spewin', ballpark-avoidin' coworker, but a coworker nonetheless. Theoretically, they're supposed to be on the same team. At the same time, this whole City of the Big Shoulders toughness thing keeps conjuring images of Sean Connery saying, "He sends one of your men to da hospital, you send one o'his to da MORGUE! THAT's the Chicago way." And in keeping with that theme, it's hard to see where subtle is the right choice. Decent column that stopped short.
  4. Herbert Anchovy

    Herbert Anchovy Active Member

    It reads to me like Telander has become so exasperated with his subject that he just kind of says "You know what, fuck this guy" toward the end.
  5. Almost_Famous

    Almost_Famous Active Member

    So what about those questions he posed at the ends?

    When the blog debate raged on here two years ago, the non-blog believers kept saying that you NEEDED access.

    Mariotti, for one, has proved no access is needed. Read Wilbon, and you know he doesn't need access, either. Same with TK. I haven't read Bob Ryan or his red-headed counterpart .... do they quote actual people?

    With the changes to sportswriting, the immediacy to it all ... do you NEED access?

    Take the World Cup. Game airs at 11 am. It's over by 1. By 130, you can read analysis in 5 different blogs. Then, maybe ESPN news airs the press conference. By 2 pm, the AP gamer is posted. By 3 pm, 5 more blogs have posted about it. ESPN news has showed the highlights 10 more times. What good is access at this point?
  6. slappy4428

    slappy4428 Active Member

    That's when good writers stop writing about the what and shifting gears to the why... Part of the why is analysis. PArt of the analysis is asking questions to the people involved. You cant ask those questions if you choose not to have access to those people.
  7. Herbert Anchovy

    Herbert Anchovy Active Member

    You can't place a subject on its side and legitimately inspect its parts unless you are studying and using powers of observation in a locker room setting -- which is your subject's natural habitat. It simply cannot be done from a press box high in the clouds.
  8. Pat_Forde

    Pat_Forde New Member

    At severe risk of hijacking a most compelling thread, here goes, in the direction of Almost Famous:

    Good God almighty yes, you need access to do your job correctly.

    For one: Mike Wilbon talks to people. Does interviews. Asks questions. Goes in the locker room. Travels. Last time I saw him in person, he was elbowing for space in a crowded locker room in the Metrodome to talk to Joakim Noah. Asked his own questions, got good answers, used the quotes accordingly to help his story.

    For two: Bob Ryan works like hell in an interview room or a locker room. He's an amazing reporter, still full of energy and inquistiveness at an age where it would be mighty tempting to Mariotti it in from the press box.

    Sometimes straight opinion is great. Sometimes it's the way to go. Sometimes that's exactly what the columnist should do. Most times, it's not. Most times, the best story is seen and heard and felt up close, then reported to the readers. That's my opinion.
  9. Twoback

    Twoback Active Member

    I thought Morrisey's piece was much stronger, more emphatic.
    Telander is sending a message, but if he's going to go as far as he did, he should have gone all the way.
  10. novelist_wannabe

    novelist_wannabe Well-Known Member

    A new verb enters the lexicon
  11. Dave Kindred

    Dave Kindred Member

    I'm with Pat.....anybody who thinks reporting can be done well without getting dirty is a lazy ass who isn't paying attention.....if you pay attention with a critical mind to what you're seeing and hearing, you'll have a dozen questions with all their follow-ups and digressions that will make your story/column fresh, original, engaging, and based on the events of the day rather than the flights of your imagination.....the questions you take into the locker room are the building blocks for that good work, and they need to be asked the right way to the right people....

    By the way, here's my man Wilbon on all this -- from a live chat at Washingtonpost.com y'day....

    Philly, Pa.: I know Ozzie Guillen obviously shouldn't have used a slur about homosexuals, but does he really owe Jay Mariotti an apology? Mariotti,both on television and in print, comes off as abrasive and at times mean spirited. It seems like sometimes some members (certainly not all) of the media cannot take the same type of criticism they routinely dish out, and the media should be held to the same type of criticism they hold what they cover. Also, if it's true (and obviously I wouldn't know) that Jay was writing about the White Sox without regularly attending games or speaking to members of the team, isn't that a perfectly legitimate complaint, even if it wasn't expressed in a professional manner?

    Michael Wilbon: I've avoided this topic publicly, but no more.

    Ozzie shouldn't have said what he said. He knows better. And I'm glad Kenny Williams, the White Sox GM, has said if he can't clean up his act he'll be fired.

    But Ozzie owes no apology to Jay, my friend for 16-plus years and someone I like very much. Jay can say all he wants that he's not welcome in the White Sox clubhouse...Really? He writes hyper-critical pieces and doesn't go in the clubhouse for years, then thinks he won't be resented years later?

    Anybody who reads my column knows I write critically about athletes and coaches. It's my job. But I learned from Tony, Dave Kindred, Ken Denlinger, my longtime sports editor George Solomon, and of course, the late Shirley Povich, that if you're going to throw punches, you'd better be able to take punches. You show up the next day so that the player/coach/manager can take a shot back at you...even if it means a physical confrontation...And I've never had one of those because a player can walk right up to me and say, "I think you're full of .....!" Or whatever. If you know the player/coach/manager/GM and it's a local situation, it shouldn't even be a surprise. I've called people I know and said, "Listen, I've got to light you up for this in the paper." Sometimes they say nothing. Sometimes they say, "Hold on, let me give you my side." Sometimes they say, "I respect you for telling me."

    There are all sorts of ways to deal with this, but not showing up in the clubhouse isn't one of them. It's inexcusable.

    When you write tough, critical pieces you show up the next day.

    I've switched off days to go to a locker room or practice the day after. I once drove out to Redskins Park on Thanksgiving morning to simply be there if Norv Turner wanted to go off on me...which he did...then we ate lunch and laughed about it. Had I not gone, how high might the resentment have risen? And how long might it have lasted?

    This isn't debatable, it's no optional. It's mandatory. Go to the locker room, period. And Jay doesn't live by the code. And now, understandably, the White Sox are on his butt.

    I once asked Rod Strickland why in the world he was chatting amicably with a writer who had ripped him that morning. And Rod said, "Oh man, Jack (fictional name)is cool with me. He's always there where I can find him. The guys I don't talk to are the ones who write stuff good or bad and don't show. I'm always cool with Jack."

    I never forgot that conversation, which took place more than 10 years ago. And Rod's sentiment is the sentiment of 90 percent of the guys I've covered. Athletes respect people who are right there, available and accountable. And if you aren't, you get what you deserve.

  12. Columbo

    Columbo Active Member

    THAT is posing the questions and answering.

    Wilbon went where I wanted that Telander piece to go.

    Thanks for that c&p, Dave.
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